Crab.C.Nesbitt
Bobby Mimms
I remember there being weeks of speculation and negotiation prior to the move. To say we just let him go is total gonads!
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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach
- Thread starter Bale
- Start date
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
Because we accepted the first bid Hamburg made from what I understand. We've been reminded in the last couple of years what a tough negotiator Levy is. Modric wanted to leave, but Levy wouldn't let him until he got what he saw as a fair price for him.
Me and you will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
The Modric deal dragged on months. Over a year actually because Levy flat out refused to sell him to them. You say there was speculation, but there was no indication that VDV himself wanted to go.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
So delighted to see another day of fruitful discussion and exchanges on Andre Villas Boas and what he is trying to do.
Seriously, from the former postee who has seen fit to reincarnate themself with the sole intention of finding soft spots to jab at, to the fruitless debate about a player who left, I have to wonder what on earth is going here. It's getting really, really silly...
Seriously, from the former postee who has seen fit to reincarnate themself with the sole intention of finding soft spots to jab at, to the fruitless debate about a player who left, I have to wonder what on earth is going here. It's getting really, really silly...
Kingdawson
Banned
Personally i think it's Moonlit's brother.
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
The bickering will not stop until results improve sadly. Not fair on AVB I know, but that's the reality. It subsided a bit when we won at Old Trafford.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Well it's ridiculous. Seriously. This is not what supporting a club is about. When, and if, the guy fudges it up, then fine, bicker away. He's barely started working and he's already under the sort of pathetic pressure that short-term 'instant-gratification' tossers demand these days (a majority rule in modern society I accept, with sadness)...
It's telling to me that absolutely no-one is interested in discussing our 3 at the back attempt to grab the game back on Saturday. Instead we'd rather mire ourselves in the semantics of the VdV sale. In a thread marked 'AVB - Head Coach'...Pathetic IMO.
It's certainly not ridiculous steff. People like you are too optimistic that it actually becomes overpoweringly negative. All for your positive vibes mate but AVB is not beyond criticsm simply because he's 'New'. That certainly doesn't happen in real life does it????
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
You've gone bananas.
So my 'optimism' is what is causing an 'overpoweringly negative reaction'?
You'll need to explain that...
...BTW, criticism is one thing (I have criticized him for some things) but overpowering witch hunting him and going on and on and on about Harry is another. The latter has been in full force for some time.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Go take a look at post 3229 and there is more proof elsewere if you can be bothered to look for, not doing that for you.
There's positive then there's SO POSITIVE that you seem oblivious to the faults of the man. I'm all for supporting the boss, after all and something a lot of people on here seem to forget, is that we're all here due to,our love for one reason. I'm tired, however, of people jumping on posters who dare to criticise AVB.
Before I became a a manager in my field I worked under new bosses frequently. With some it was obvious that their visions or ideas weren't going to work and, needless to say, they didn't last long. Was it wrong for me to question them so early on? No because they didnt have a clue.
Now, whether AVB has a clue or not is up for debate but if someone has the opinion that he hasnt that's up to them and is certainly not ridiculous.
Before I became a a manager in my field I worked under new bosses frequently. With some it was obvious that their visions or ideas weren't going to work and, needless to say, they didn't last long. Was it wrong for me to question them so early on? No because they didnt have a clue.
Now, whether AVB has a clue or not is up for debate but if someone has the opinion that he hasnt that's up to them and is certainly not ridiculous.
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
That was after he left wasn't it? PR machine in full swing towards the new club. I want to see quotes from when he was a Spurs player. [/QUOTE] push and run
Pretty much sums up how I feel.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
First of all, in my specific situation, your opening sentence is wrong. I won't bother going back to illustrate it, but that's a fact.
Secondly, question a man all you like, but context must be offered to every situation, and if all that context revolves around is the previous manager's tenure, or who sanctioned the sale of a player, then it is baseless.
YOU can question all you like, but the FACTS are that the board and squad respect the work and direction he's heading us in (even if he is a touch idiosyncratic)...
I'm tired of people constantly bringing up Harry Redknapp in comparison with him, since July. It's tedious.
If you don't like him, great, have at it. But constructive discussion please, not mindless comparative gonads...I do not think it's much to ask, and frankly mate, if you think three pages on whether he should be coated for sanctioning the sale of VdV is constructive disagreement over the merits of his abilities as a coach, then you and I are in very different worlds.
in my opinion it is ridiculous to form a conclusive opinion on the manager at this stage, which is what some people seem to be doing and imv it is those types of posts that are drawing out the overly defensive attitude from others.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Thing is mate, football isn't really like real life. (and can I just say I agree with Steff on the utter pointlessness of the Rafa debate, seriously guys)
People so often say 'if I performed this badly in my job I'd be sacked!' or something similar, but football really isn't like that.
People have also said there's not really many examples in the modern era of managers taking a while to get going before becoming really successful, and I want to address these two points.
Firstly, just because results aren't going our way right now, it doesn't mean AVB is performing badly or simply doing a bad job. The thing about football at the highest level is that in this league, you have 20 clubs all with some of the best football minds in the world preparing the teams. Doesn't mean they won't make mistakes, but that isn't the point I'm making. Their mistakes are only relative to everyone else's mistakes at the highest level, and would have still had good thought beyond them. Anyway, the point is that because there are 20 teams, all well prepared, all well drilled, all with the best football thinking in the world behind them, some teams will still have to lose. Some teams will still experience bad runs of form. It's more likely to be the team that's trying to learn a new way of playing, and a new way of approaching a game, than it is to be a team that is a few years in to it's ways of working.
And that's because the margins of success are so fine. I'm 100% sure AVB is preparing the team for games, coaching and understanding opposition weaknesses about as well as any top manager would be doing for us right now. But because we are trying to learn a new way, where as some teams will be well into theirs, we will be more likely to suffer. We could well lose or drop points to West Ham this weekend, but it won't mean AVB is doing a bad job. West Ham have had more time in their system, and even they had a shaky time of it for a while under Allardyce last year and were fairly lucky to go up.
People can say Wenger got pretty immediate results, but that was a different climate. He was a new man, with new ideas, and there was space at the top for someone clever enough to take it. He was revolutionary for his time. People can say Clarke is getting immediate results at West Brom, but they haven't changed too much, haven't lost key players for a good few years and smartly add to their squad with players they need every transfer window. Plus the season is only 12 games old, so it's tough to judge them properly yet. People will say the Fergie example isn't relevant any more, because the game was different back then, but I would argue it's about to swing back around.
Back then, Fergie got time to implement his style on the club and it remains to this day. In Wenger's era, he exploited his new ideas and took up another space at the top. That probably fuelled most club's urge for instant success and the desire for the Champions League money. But now the game is different again. I think football decision makers have realised that because of the climate in our league, with Man United, City and Chelsea being almost impossible to catch because of their sheer spending power. They know that even the brightest young manager in the world isn't going to give them instant success because there's no way he can replicate the performances they can without their money overnight. So more and more clubs are settling in for long term strategies. They know that ingrained systems and styles of play, and sustainable transfer policies will see them with a greater chance of challenging the clubs that can get whichever players they want in. Look at the club that has tried to short-cut their way to instant gratification - QPR. Their players motivation has been shot, because they didn't do it in a sustainable way.
Is Rodgers delivering instant success at Liverpool? No, but for some reason their fans seem a lot more willing to give him time, without jumping to hysterics. People think because we came 4th in a league where Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool all had terrible seasons that we should easily be able to do it again, but they have gotten better and we have had the reality shock that there is a lot of work to be done if we want to establish ourselves for the long term. No manager is going to come in with his magic formula and instantly get the results any more like Wenger, because every single other club is also well drilled as is up to date with the latest strategies. It's just about which one the clubs choose to follow. The game has become globalized, and foreign coaches are the norm. Klopp didn't get the success he currently has with Dortmund immediately, they treated water at around 5th or 6th before really getting the fantastic football and the success to go with it. And that took time, in a league where there aren't as many established players and sugar daddy clubs as ours.
I think AVB is trying to get our players to think about games on such a level that we should then be able to tackle most situations and be able to exploit every team. It's demanding, and I'd hazard a guess that it's more radical than most managers would go for. But because it is so different from what the players are used to, it will take time. And we have to give him that. It would be a waste of time not to, and the rewards if we do are obvious. I think he can do it. Why should we think he can't? Are the players not responding to him? Seems to be that they are completely on his side. You can look at our performances in one of 2 ways. Either he's tactically clueless and the players don't know what they are supposed to be doing, or he's trying to implement something that will so obviously take time.
I ask you all, please. I beg of you. Which one of those options do you think it is honestly likely to be?
parklane1
Tony Galvin
This is what makes me laugh, everyone has a right to complain about a manager and what they think of his ability. However he has had 12 Lge games and there are some who are prepared to slag him off already ( and in all honesty they were a few who did it before then), imo it says more about them then the target of their complaints.
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
Steff, people will always compare the current manager to previous Spurs managers, especially one as polarising as Redknapp.
It's not just on here that where the atmosphere has become poisonous, it's the same at the WHL. A lot of fans are dissatisfied for whatever reason. The team have been booed off at half time and full time in various games, but this is not new to spurs fans. I'm hoping AVB opts for a 4-4-2 against West Ham, we need to be positive.