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American politics

thfcsteff said:
I'm game.
I'm prepared to have any conversation without getting offended, indeed, I approach all conversations with the intent to not be offended. If, however, a conversation ends up offending me, I'll feel very free to say so...
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Haha what a bizarre approach it was to a discussion on a site where we discuss
 
thfcsteff said:
I think it is worth nothing that this publication is two years old, and has already gained a reputation as one which leans towards challenging vaccine safety as a matter of editorial policy. Which is fine, their prerogative of course, but worth stating it is one.

I am sure you would agree that the single biggest factor in autism is genetics. We also need to consider that autism is something we have only defined with any degree of clarity since 1943. Before that, whilst the spectrum of conditions obviously existed, most were misdefined and (indeed) pegged as an extreme form of schizophrenia (which I find very odd). I think what has changed more than anything is that society is more willing to diagnose and accept conditions like autism than it has been in the past.
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Exactly this, the fact is, like say Cancer, over time our understanding, diagnosing, treatments like have improved which make the figures seem more stark now, but in fact thats down to diagnosing success (which should be applauded). People saying "look there are far more now" are missing the whole history behind these things........"sit down in the corner and be quiet" or "less sugar for you" or whatever retort to behaviour there used to be.

Its also worth noting, as you say, there is a spectrum, so where someone maybe is just socially awkward but officially defined as autistic, they are not in the mould that people think Autism looks like.

I see alot of comments about the scary rise of Autism and looking for a cause, the facts are the rise is diagnosing it correctly and advancement in care, not Autism itself
 
thfcsteff said:
I think it is worth nothing that this publication is two years old, and has already gained a reputation as one which leans towards challenging vaccine safety as a matter of editorial policy. Which is fine, their prerogative of course, but worth stating it is one.

I am sure you would agree that the single biggest factor in autism is genetics. We also need to consider that autism is something we have only defined with any degree of clarity since 1943. Before that, whilst the spectrum of conditions obviously existed, most were misdefined and (indeed) pegged as an extreme form of schizophrenia (which I find very odd). I think what has changed more than anything is that society is more willing to diagnose and accept conditions like autism than it has been in the past.
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Genetics clearly influence vulnerability. But the severity cannot be explained by genetics. If severe autism was primarily caused by inherited genes, we would see it die out over time because people with the most severe forms have extremly low reproductive rates.
 
thfcsteff said:
I'm game.
I'm prepared to have any conversation without getting offended, indeed, I approach all conversations with the intent to not be offended. If, however, a conversation ends up offending me, I'll feel very free to say so...
Click to expand...

Just to be clear if you got rid of the guns this would be a problem that gets virtually eliminated over night. But in terms of where we are today where access to guns for Americans is high.

A mass shooting is defined as any attack with three or more fatalities by the FBI.

You have to separate out those without an associated crime or specific intended targets. Someone goes to a Gas Station to commit a robbery and it goes wrong, or an ex husband shooting his wife’s new family etc. It’s not the same as someone showing up to a school, place of worship or random public place and opening fire.

When you narrow it down to those specific types of shootings, you can the correlate the perpetrators by Race and Gender and see a correlation with rates or mental health issues based on suicide rates and use of anti depresents.

That takes it to 3 groups, at least in the US. White Males, Trans and Native American Males. The issues that face the later two are pretty self explanatory and they also over index because they make up such a small percentage of the population, so a handful or incidents will see them spike.

But we can look at what they have in common with White Males and see a trend. Social isolation, economic instability, status anxiety, public stigma and being more open to radicalization, paticuarly online.

What causes these to have become an epedemic in white males?

A perceived privelige based on their skin colour that only really exists for those also born into loving and financially stable home. Without that, the privelige does not exist but you are still perceived to have one by society. In some cases they it’s self perceived as well. What that results in is what the same things that lead to an increased need for anti depressants, suicide attempts, violence and in the extreme cases these types of shootings…..which can only happen because it’s easy to get guns.
 
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LutonSpurs said:
Sure. I'll make you look stupid as I don't pretend I'm an expert. I go to sources from experts. Run along if you can't back up your position intellectually.
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This only works when capable of independent thought. But that’s ok. Not everyone has the same lived experiences and intellect. But at the very least you are a Spurs fan.
 
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robp135 said:
Genetics clearly influence vulnerability. But the severity cannot be explained by genetics. If severe autism was primarily caused by inherited genes, we would see it die out over time because people with the most severe forms have extremly low reproductive rates.
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True, however there are so many potential environmental factors which could well be as key as anything. BTW, I am not sure the severity is any greater than it has been versus the recognition/diagnosis of it. I'd love to see data from the pre-40s, when autism was not a recognised ailment/condition. It's not dissimilar IMO to depression, ADHD and BPD, all conditions which were largely given short-thrift or none at all before the 1900s. Of them all depression probably got the most play, and a bit laudenum or some such drug would do the trick (I am being glib of course).

Of all of them, ADHD for me is perhaps the saddest (along with the autistic spectrum) because I am utterly convinced that right up until there was some final declaration of ADHD in the '80s, generation upon generation of kids suffering from it were likely given a whack and punted outside rather than treated. So I do wonder if the fact we are now more alive and aware to conditions and diagnosis than ever before (which has resulted in far greater numbers) is worth paying attention to?

A side story. My daughter was recently diagnosed as having high-function autism. She has also in the past been diagnosed with both ADHD and BPD (anxiety and depression are in there too). She's doing fine all told, however in order to function in society there are certain things and protocols she has to execute. As a consequence of her diagnosis, her doctor suggested that I could also have a few traits myself. What he said made sense. Yet there is no way in the world I would ever have been diagnosed as a kid, quite simply because I was not on any obvious spectrum (when you look into it then you see how my traits could well be HF autistic). If you met me, you'd never see it. An interesting footnote here is my father was schizophrenic (it developed rapidly in his final 20 years) and autism was apparently considered an offshoot of schizophrenia (who knows, I have not looked into it deeply enough and I'm not qualified to say). I say all this because I think the rise in autism is down to several factors. Do vaccines affect some people negatively? I wouldn't argue that is not the case, as clearly, some people have reactions. However I do think that there is an awful lot being put behind the vaccines-cause-autism thrust, when for me, there are so many other factors to consider, most of which I personally believe have more to do with the situation.

As for big-pharma, yes there is undoubtably a big business there. We've seen many times that money is made and scandals erupt (oxycontin for example). However there has been so much good and vital science and pharmaceutical research which has saved millions and millions of lives. What I think is more dangerous is virtually destroying the CDC and withdrawing support and funding for global heatlhcare and research. Stripping the working rights of DHSS workers is a terrible step. Kennedy has looked to seek more 'holistic' approaches to children's mental health issues, and whilst that sounds noble, it is at best naive and at worst dangerous to do this at the expense of reducing pharmaceutical intervention when necessary. One area I do wholly approve of what he has tried to do, is with the food pyramid reshaping, however the world is built on convenience and he is going to have to be far more adventurous in pushing this food pyramid. For example, why not get fully involved in trying to create a federal school meals program which provides healthy lunches for children? That would be a major step. The problem is his party has no interest whatsoever in spending money on it.

I am a big fan of not jumping to prescriptions every time something is 'off', furthermore, I am a big fan of taking care of your own health as responsibly as possible. Diet, exercise, moderate if any alcohol, all that good stuff. Equally, I take several medications and have done for over a decade. These help assist me in maintaining my health.

I could (as you have doubtless gauged LOL) go on.
It's an interesting discussion.
I can see why Kennedy got some people onside, yet I cannot help but view him as an utterly untrustworthy charlatan.
 
robp135 said:
Just to be clear if you got rid of the guns this would be a problem that gets virtually eliminated over night. But in terms of where we are today where access to guns for Americans is high.

A mass shooting is defined as any attack with three or more fatalities by the FBI.

You have to separate out those without an associated crime or specific intended targets. Someone goes to a Gas Station to commit a robbery and it goes wrong, or an ex husband shooting his wife’s new family etc. It’s not the same as someone showing up to a school, place of worship or random public place and opening fire.

When you narrow it down to those specific types of shootings, you can the correlate the perpetrators by Race and Gender and see a correlation with rates or mental health issues based on suicide rates and use of anti depresents.

That takes it to 3 groups, at least in the US. White Males, Trans and Native American Males. The issues that face the later two are pretty self explanatory and they also over index because they make up such a small percentage of the population, so a handful or incidents will see them spike.

But we can look at what they have in common with White Males and see a trend. Social isolation, economic instability, status anxiety, public stigma and being more open to radicalization, paticuarly online.

What causes these to have become an epedemic in white males?

A perceived privelige based on their skin colour that only really exists for those also born into loving and financially stable home. Without that, the privelige does not exist but you are still perceived to have one by society. In some cases they it’s self perceived as well. What that results in is what the same things that lead to an increased need for anti depressants, suicide attempts, violence and in the extreme cases these types of shootings…..which can only happen because it’s easy to get guns.
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I 'think' I follow what you're saying? Let me write it below and you can correct me if I have misconstrued.

Essentially, you're saying that among white males, transgender and native americans there exists a degree of experienced societal isolation which when paired up with easy access to guns and ensuing mental health issues can lead to these sorts of incidents?

IF this is what you're saying, then I'd reply with the following.

I believe the number one cause is obviously mental health. Chronically under-funded, especially among poorer uninsured communities, these issues fester and fester before sometimes causing these tragedies. I personally am not especially interested in trying to correlate whether this shooter's potential trans status had anything to do with it. In my opinion it is simply weaponising something which a specific segment of the community are already up in arms about and I personally find it appalling. There is plenty to look at with regards to this case in terms of the person's background and mental health. Ditto Native American Indians. Of those three groups, the despondent, lonely, and ostracised white male is a massive issue for me, because it is an increasing issue in many areas of society beyond crimes of this nature. The 'manosphere' for example. And I think it is an area where so much more can be done to include these people as opposed to have them feel excluded/ridiculed/marginalised and left as easy prey for extremist agitators.
 
thfcsteff said:
True, however there are so many potential environmental factors which could well be as key as anything. BTW, I am not sure the severity is any greater than it has been versus the recognition/diagnosis of it. I'd love to see data from the pre-40s, when autism was not a recognised ailment/condition. It's not dissimilar IMO to depression, ADHD and BPD, all conditions which were largely given short-thrift or none at all before the 1900s. Of them all depression probably got the most play, and a bit laudenum or some such drug would do the trick (I am being glib of course).

Of all of them, ADHD for me is perhaps the saddest (along with the autistic spectrum) because I am utterly convinced that right up until there was some final declaration of ADHD in the '80s, generation upon generation of kids suffering from it were likely given a whack and punted outside rather than treated. So I do wonder if the fact we are now more alive and aware to conditions and diagnosis than ever before (which has resulted in far greater numbers) is worth paying attention to?

A side story. My daughter was recently diagnosed as having high-function autism. She has also in the past been diagnosed with both ADHD and BPD (anxiety and depression are in there too). She's doing fine all told, however in order to function in society there are certain things and protocols she has to execute. As a consequence of her diagnosis, her doctor suggested that I could also have a few traits myself. What he said made sense. Yet there is no way in the world I would ever have been diagnosed as a kid, quite simply because I was not on any obvious spectrum (when you look into it then you see how my traits could well be HF autistic). If you met me, you'd never see it. An interesting footnote here is my father was schizophrenic (it developed rapidly in his final 20 years) and autism was apparently considered an offshoot of schizophrenia (who knows, I have not looked into it deeply enough and I'm not qualified to say). I say all this because I think the rise in autism is down to several factors. Do vaccines affect some people negatively? I wouldn't argue that is not the case, as clearly, some people have reactions. However I do think that there is an awful lot being put behind the vaccines-cause-autism thrust, when for me, there are so many other factors to consider, most of which I personally believe have more to do with the situation.

As for big-pharma, yes there is undoubtably a big business there. We've seen many times that money is made and scandals erupt (oxycontin for example). However there has been so much good and vital science and pharmaceutical research which has saved millions and millions of lives. What I think is more dangerous is virtually destroying the CDC and withdrawing support and funding for global heatlhcare and research. Stripping the working rights of DHSS workers is a terrible step. Kennedy has looked to seek more 'holistic' approaches to children's mental health issues, and whilst that sounds noble, it is at best naive and at worst dangerous to do this at the expense of reducing pharmaceutical intervention when necessary. One area I do wholly approve of what he has tried to do, is with the food pyramid reshaping, however the world is built on convenience and he is going to have to be far more adventurous in pushing this food pyramid. For example, why not get fully involved in trying to create a federal school meals program which provides healthy lunches for children? That would be a major step. The problem is his party has no interest whatsoever in spending money on it.

I am a big fan of not jumping to prescriptions every time something is 'off', furthermore, I am a big fan of taking care of your own health as responsibly as possible. Diet, exercise, moderate if any alcohol, all that good stuff. Equally, I take several medications and have done for over a decade. These help assist me in maintaining my health.

I could (as you have doubtless gauged LOL) go on.
It's an interesting discussion.
I can see why Kennedy got some people onside, yet I cannot help but view him as an utterly untrustworthy charlatan.
Click to expand...

How would you explain a situation like what my wife experienced, where children who were meeting their developmental milestones recieved a vaccination, fell ill or went into seizure and show immediate regression which resulted in an Autism diagnosis ?
 
robp135 said:
How would you explain a situation like what my wife experienced, where children who were meeting their developmental milestones recieved a vaccination, fell ill or went into seizure and show immediate regression which resulted in an Autism diagnosis ?
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Obviously she experienced it. I didn't. And I wouldn't even try to explain it. I am interested to know how many children. I'd be interested to know whether there were any other similar factors shared between them (location, etc). I'd be interested to know more details TBH. How would you, in turn, explain the millions of children who have been vaccinated regularly and do not experience any symptoms such as those you've noted?
 
thfcsteff said:
Obviously she experienced it. I didn't. And I wouldn't even try to explain it. I am interested to know how many children. I'd be interested to know whether there were any other similar factors shared between them (location, etc). I'd be interested to know more details TBH. How would you, in turn, explain the millions of children who have been vaccinated regularly and do not experience any symptoms such as those you've noted?
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I’ve never suggested that every person that gets vaccinated gets a injured. The most common thoughts are being sick at the time of vaccination or just having a weaker immune system than most.

My wife worked as a Nuse in Southbend in Indiana, Atlanta, Los Angeles and finished in Las Vegas.

I spoke previously about my wifes experiences.

The worst she still feels an enormous amount of guilt over and has nightmares. A perfectly healthy boy who had met all developmental milestones at 18 months. MMR was administered and he almost immediately goes in to seizures which continue to this day. I can remember the phone call I had with her that day and the pain in her voice. The boy was diagnosed as Autistic as far out on the spectrum as you can be. Non verbal. Needs 24/7 care. Can’t go to the toilet by himself. Life has been completely ruined.

She said when she first started internship at a practice the nurses would joke about having to contact VAERS. That it would be a weekly occurrence. She has it documented how many reports she had to file and it was over 250 in an 11 year career. Keep in mind she is typically one of half a dozen nurses in a clinic and She would only report when she is the primary Nurse.

Vaccine injuries were common. Multiple cases of children who had been meeting developmental milestones with no issues who were diagnosed began to show a decline close to vaccination and later diagnosed as Autistic. She says it was more common in boys and in particular African-American boys.

Other health issues that could be tied back to vaccines were more common though. Seizures was one. Developing allergies and gut health issues were the most frequent. Physical issues like toe walking and twitches. There was a clear correlation between how young children were when getting vaccines and a negative reaction or ongoing health issue.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I saw a debate about shooters on here, not that I fully trust Wiki, but looking at the sheer number of shootings in the US and honestly I am absolutely floored by the numbers, just seems like something every day

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2026 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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It’s who they are, mate.

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robp135 said:
Genetics clearly influence vulnerability. But the severity cannot be explained by genetics. If severe autism was primarily caused by inherited genes, we would see it die out over time because people with the most severe forms have extremly low reproductive rates.
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It can when it comes to mutation of genes. Its not lineal like many diseases are not, we are not built that way, we are ridiculous complex in our make up for many things.
 
robp135 said:
How would you explain a situation like what my wife experienced, where children who were meeting their developmental milestones recieved a vaccination, fell ill or went into seizure and show immediate regression which resulted in an Autism diagnosis ?
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Because the age when children receive the MMR is also the age when some children generally regress into autism, so there will be a temporal relationship. But there is no proof other than a theory on timing relationship that vaccines cause these issues.

I feel for your wife and her story, and for the kid, but that story alone isn't scientific, thats not a dig BTW, thats just reality.
 
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