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American politics
- Thread starter Danishfurniturelover
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Rorschach
Sonny Walters
This is beyond Russia, though I think Putin is the puppet master. They are a whole bunch of countries involved in dodgy brick with Trump. The Saudis are looking for nukes!
Remember how this started though. Hilary Clinton lost an election and the immediate strategy from her people (documented in the book 'Shattered') was to blame Russia and infer that Trump was a Russian stooge. The popular term was "collusion." And this was hammered home by hacks like Rachael Maddow and the rest of the mainstream media, day in, day out.
Now, the main story is that Trump has done dodgy pay-offs to women he's phucked and is also a very crooked businessman. I don't disagree with this and I don't disagree that he's unfit to be President. But these things are not the same as the big collusion story. The biggest fraud of the 2016 election was perpetrated by the Clinton campaign against Sanders in the primary. Donna Brazille talked about it, Elizabeth Warren's immediate reaction was to call it fraud -- and then I guess the men in grey suits came and got them to walk it back. And now everybody acts like it never happened, even Bernie -- who I assume does so because he's made a political calculation that it's better to forget about it and look forward to 2020.
The bottom line is, a huge amount of noise was generated about "collusion with Russia" because it meant that ar5eholes like Clinton could avoid talking about their own failings. Fortunately, the anger on the left over there hasn't gone away and they are trying to fight, which is why we see people like AOC in congress. Hopefully, the start of things to come.
I guess what gets on my t1ts is that people who are very comfortable (talking heads in the media) are acting like Trump is the biggest problem ever in American politics, when he's only a symptom of a corrupt political system. They just don't like Trump because he doesn't say the right things. "If only we had George Bush back", they sigh. Like the Iraq War never happened, like the response to Katrina wasn't a complete disaster. "If only we had Obama then. At least he didn't do the nasty tax cuts for the rich." No, he was just the guy who made the Bush tax cuts permanent, expanded the drone wars across multiple countries with a 'kill list' that grows and grows, and whose only legacy is a right-wing healthcare plan that American's could have got from a President Romney (who oversaw similar as governor of Massachusetts). But hey, at least he was polite. He deported more people than every other President in history combined, but the real problem with the treatment of immigrants obviously began with Trump, because Obama was just so nice.
You have this Twitter hysteria over Trump from people who don't seem to acknowledge that Trump isn't the problem, he is a symptom of a much larger problem. He is a phucktard of the highest order, but he's still a better President (so far) than Dubya. The talking heads just long for another phoney, who is one of them, to be in charge.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Some of the stuff you talk about I am totally in sync with (the despicable brick that has gone on before let's say, Clinton is a clown shoe, the current state of US politics, domestic scandals, etc). Yeah, some of that is nasty stuff and amazing in it's own right, but I honestly don't give much of a brick about all that. What affects me and mine is the only thing I really care about. Foreign policy and environmental policy affects me so those I watch carefully. Trump colluding or whatever you like to call it is not something contained domestically in the US. I believe it is part of a far far bigger story and I'm not really prone to conspiracy theories. Anyway, I don't want to get too drawn in on this on a Friday night so have a good one.
Edit: Incidentally, Ocasio Cortez is my favourite politician at the moment, being a bit of a tree hugger myself.
nayenezgani
Jimmy Neighbour
Sorry mate but you're wrong. Paying off women is a drop in the ocean compared to what's coming next. Mueller has it all lined up.
It may have to wait until 2020 but he's fudged, his family is fudged and anyone who has done 'business' with him is likely fudged.
Becoming president was probably one of the worst things that could have happened to Drumpf. Have you seen how devestated he looked after his victory?
He would have been able to carry on his crooked dealings without any investigation and with hugely increased media exposure had he lost.
His position now is what has created interest from the intelligence agencies. I hope he and his rotten, entitled family go away for a long time.
Becoming president is the best thing that ever happened to him, because now he can pardon himself and his friends.
I'm sure he's a crook and deserves whatever is coming to him. What I am not sure is warranted, is basically saying that Russia stole the election and Trump works for them. As far as I can tell, the goalposts are being moved because infact, there is nothing that points to that.
Most of them in D.C. have some skeletons. Not all, but most. That's why they got rid of the special prosecutor after Clinton got impeached, they figured it could happen to any of them so best not have a special prosecutor. And what happened with Bill Clinton is a good lesson really; they went after him for a land deal and dug up a blowjob from an intern. IMO, the same happens with Trump. All media screams "Russia collusion!" and an investigation will turn up his dodgy business dealings.
The media have no interest in reporting facts though, not even the liberal, fake one. For them it's all about ratings. This wasn't meant as an investigation of Trump, but it looks like they're finding skeletons in every closet. Hopefully he hasn't grasped the scope of it yet himself or that much is passed on to state level and he can't pardon himself there.
He is a piece of sh1t crook and I hope he falls hard.
I just also hope that Americans will realise that the problems in their politics don't start and end with Trump. So when he's gone, don't just celebrate because they have a more normal human being as the next President. There are some promising signs on the American Left that people do get it. That it's not enough to say "we're not Trump, so it's all ok now" and that they have to address the substantive issues facing the country. There is/will be a huge struggle against a political and media class that want to keep everything pretty much the same, apart from getting rid of Trump.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Russian interference through active measures in the 2016 electionn has been confirmed by every intelligence arm of the US government. That is not even a matter for debate. And considering the election could have flipped on the sum total of 40k votes across 3 states then you can see that it didn't take a whole lot to change things. And that doesn't even factor in things like the DNC hacking, the WIKI leak dumps at opportune times, and a bunch of other stuff which swung opinion at the right times. The results of the Mueller investigation will truly shock you when it comes out.
Do you mean memes on twitter? Does this equal collusion between Trump-Russia to get him elected President and effectively owe Putin favours? Because that's what has (well, was) inferred by the media non-stop. All, imo, a narrative to try and show that everything is fine with American politics, if only they can get rid of the treasonous Trump. Now, because there's not much in the way of collusion turning up in evidence, they are going after Trump's dodgy business dealings and pay-offs of pornstars.
WIKI leaks used to be fine by many in American politics, when they revealed bad stuff about the Iraq War. Once they revealed bad stuff about St. Hilary, they are obviously part of a nefarious Russian scheme to make Clinton not campaign in the states she needed to.
If you are right and the Mueller stuff comes out and it turns out Trump is an agent of Putin, I will gladly hold my hands up.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
No I don't mean that though twitter does affect opinion. If you don't think there is anything going on then fair enough, and I don't mean porn stars nonsense that you keep referring back to. I will say that your assertion that there is no evidence is ignoring what is already out there. You can look it up if you so choose, but if the reports in mainstream media are not enough to convince you I then won't be able to either.
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I might not be following closely enough, but I have not seen anything that confirms collusion between Trump and Putin to win the presidency for Trump.
The big thing now is what Cohen has said and that it all all be revealed soon. But we've been hearing similar for 18 months or more, there has been many "we've got him!" moments that have amounted to nothing.
It reminds me of the journalist Luke Harding (I think he writes for The Guardian) who wrote a book called 'Collusion.' He was interviewed by Aaron Mate about this book and asked to be specific on where collusion occurred, specific evidence. He got p1ssy and walked away from the interview because the interviewer couldn't just take it as a given.
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
I don't think you are to be frank, but I'm not going to bombard you with links and whatnot. You can find them yourself if you want.
This is a bit long to copy and paste, but it's worth a read imo.
https://www.thenation.com/article/russiagate-russophobia-mueller-trump/
https://www.thenation.com/article/russiagate-russophobia-mueller-trump/
I agree. I hope that he completes his term until 2020 (so he isn't made a martyr for the right), gets annihilated at the ballot box (hopefully by Bernie Sanders) and then nicked for all his dodgy dealings.
