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Determining how to rank English clubs success and where Spurs would rank.

robp135

robp135

Milenko Acimovic
What to put together a system that ranks English teams based on their success What factors should come in to play?

• How would you rank the trophies that an English team can win?
• How many points should be applied to each?
• Should recent history count more and pre WW2 count less?
• Should things like relegations count against a team?
• Should things like number of seasons in Europe and in the top division count?
 
One point for a cup, two points for winning the league or champions league.

100 point bonus each for being the first club to win the FA cup as a non-league cup after football went professional, win the double after the league went fully national, and English club to win a European trophy.
 
jts1882 said:
One point for a cup, two points for winning the league or champions league.

100 point bonus each for being the first club to win the FA cup as a non-league cup after football went professional, win the double after the league went fully national, and English club to win a European trophy.
Click to expand...

Would you not seperate out the FA Cup & League Cup and the rest.

Example winning the European Cup/Champions League is more than 2x what winning a League Cup is worth.
 
Depends how detailed you want it. You could potentially take into consideration pitch quality, standard of rules and refereeing, the English European ban, change in number of subs, impact of oil money, etc. Winning the FA cup was for instance much more prestigious 30-40-50 years ago, should that count more than wins today? UEFA cup win vs CL win?

It's an interesting topic, and one that noone will ever agree upon. I did however consult my friend ChatGPT with this enquiry:

"Can you create a system that ranks English football teams based on their success. It must take into consideration historical league placements and trophies, the development of the game and prestige of different accomplishments in different eras. How would you suggest setting it up?"

After a bit of tweaking, it came back to me with this answer:

"Here’s your final Top 10 English clubs of all time, using the fully refined model we built together:

1. Liverpool FC — 1000
2. Manchester United — 962
3. Arsenal FC — 914
4. Everton FC — 872
5. Aston Villa — 835
6. Chelsea FC — 812
7. Tottenham Hotspur — 798
8. Emirates Marketing Project — 776
9. Saudi Sportswashing Machine — 741
10. Nottingham Forest — 726

Scores are indexed totals (not raw points), normalized so that #1 ≈ 1000 for clarity."
 
And a bit of explanation:

How to interpret the scores
950–1000 → all-time elite, multiple dominant eras
900–950 → historically dominant with sustained success
800–900 → major clubs with strong peaks + consistency
750–800 → high-impact clubs with either strong peaks or long relevance
<750 → significant but less complete historical profiles
⚖️ Key margins
Liverpool vs United (+38) → reflects era difficulty + UEFA Cup correction
United vs Arsenal (+48) → European edge + peak achievements
Spurs vs City (+22) → historic significance + financial adjustment impact
Saudi Sportswashing Machine vs Forest (+15) → longevity vs peak trade-off
 
Robbo said:
Depends how detailed you want it. You could potentially take into consideration pitch quality, standard of rules and refereeing, the English European ban, change in number of subs, impact of oil money, etc. Winning the FA cup was for instance much more prestigious 30-40-50 years ago, should that count more than wins today? UEFA cup win vs CL win?

It's an interesting topic, and one that noone will ever agree upon. I did however consult my friend ChatGPT with this enquiry:

"Can you create a system that ranks English football teams based on their success. It must take into consideration historical league placements and trophies, the development of the game and prestige of different accomplishments in different eras. How would you suggest setting it up?"

After a bit of tweaking, it came back to me with this answer:

"Here’s your final Top 10 English clubs of all time, using the fully refined model we built together:

1. Liverpool FC — 1000
2. Manchester United — 962
3. Arsenal FC — 914
4. Everton FC — 872
5. Aston Villa — 835
6. Chelsea FC — 812
7. Tottenham Hotspur — 798
8. Emirates Marketing Project — 776
9. Saudi Sportswashing Machine — 741
10. Nottingham Forest — 726

Scores are indexed totals (not raw points), normalized so that #1 ≈ 1000 for clarity."
Click to expand...

I think that you can use 1992, 1945 an 1901 as split points.

1992 is when the Premiership and Champions League begun and when the domestic cups began to mean less.

1945 the war and 1900 turn of the century.

You can also class the UEFA Cup & Europa League as seperate.

Champions League/European Cup- 25pts
Premiership/First Division - 18pts
UEFA Cup/Cup Winners Cup - 14pts
Pre 1992 FA Cup - 12 Pts
Europa League - 10pts
Pre 1992 League Cup - 8pts
Post 1992 FA Cup - 6pts
Post 1992 League Cup - 4pts
Other International Trophy - 2pts
Other Domestic Trophy - 1pt

League Only
Post 1992 x 1.10 - 19..20
1945-1992 x 1.00 - 18.00
Post WW2 x 0.90 - 16.20
1900-1944 x 0.80 - 14.40
Pre 1900 x 0.70 - 12.60
 
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