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***OMT Tottenham Hotspur Football Club v Nottingham Forest***

thfcsteff said:
I'd written a long reply but there's no point.
As Reginald Perrin once famously said at Billbury Hall, "I know what I don't know."
And what I know that I don't know in this case, is whether we will ever find common ground on your extreme opinion.
Probably not worth going any further trying to find out.
Have a good one, and try the fish next time, it's the right plaice to go...
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I know, I was about to reply!! :)
Then it disappeared - I thought I was on tinder!

Not entirely sure I'd describe my opinion that our players are playing brick is extreme - more just evidence based.
 
We are going down. There's no denying it now. We don't have players that are mentally equipped for a relegation fight, and the teams we are fighting are.
We haven't won a game in months, and people expect us to win half of the games remaining. That's delusion of epic proportions.
 
Kandi1977 said:
We are going down. There's no denying it now. We don't have players that are mentally equipped for a relegation fight, and the teams we are fighting are.
We haven't won a game in months, and people expect us to win half of the games remaining. That's delusion of epic proportions.
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It’s grim but we aren’t even in the relegation spots yet. West Ham looked down the year we beat them 4-3 and put a run together. Fulham looked dead and buried a couple of years later and turned it around.

I maintain we cannot be this brick for the remainder of the season. The law of averages has to kick in at some point and we have to win a game. I just hope it’s fudging quickly.
 
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DeanoAustin said:
It’s grim but we aren’t even in the relegation spots yet. West Ham looked down the year we beat them 4-3 and put a run together. Fulham looked dead and buried a couple of years later and turned it around.

I maintain we cannot be this brick for the remainder of the season. The law of averages has to kick in at some point and we have to win a game. I just hope it’s fudging quickly.
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I'm with YOU! It's the hopium which keeps it all worthwhile...COYS!
 
DeanoAustin said:
It’s grim but we aren’t even in the relegation spots yet. West Ham looked down the year we beat them 4-3 and put a run together. Fulham looked dead and buried a couple of years later and turned it around.

I maintain we cannot be this brick for the remainder of the season. The law of averages has to kick in at some point and we have to win a game. I just hope it’s fudging quickly.
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This is still the biggest credible argument I see for the idea that we will stay up. Because it simply has to turn at some point. It is crazy to be this bad. But two things now worry me:

We’re already in ‘can it really be this bad’ territory. 13 games without a win. It’s already surely unprecedented for a club our size and a squad of our quality. What’s to stop it going longer?

And then with the players, I think the only real motivation they now have is to not be the players that take Tottenham down. And no other club and squad of players in a relegation battle has to live with that. It’s again unprecedented for a squad of our quality and a club our size to be in this position, and when the main motivation is to essentially not suffer the most embarrassing situation it is possible for a premier league squad full of internationals to suffer, it’s hardly conducive to confident, relaxed play at the elite level. The West Ham players will scrap knowing that they’ve gotten out before, and can do again, but even if it happens, it will be terrible for them but not as bad as it is for us.

When I think about the players having a mental equilibrium, to be just on the edge enough to compete strongly but not so far over it that the nerves just take hold…I fear our squad is all out of whack. It’s already way worse than it should be.
 
DeanoAustin said:
It’s grim but we aren’t even in the relegation spots yet. West Ham looked down the year we beat them 4-3 and put a run together. Fulham looked dead and buried a couple of years later and turned it around.

I maintain we cannot be this brick for the remainder of the season. The law of averages has to kick in at some point and we have to win a game. I just hope it’s fudging quickly.
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Ordinarily I'd agree with you.
But it's actually 1.5 seasons of it.
It's mentality that creates those runs.
 
monkeybarry said:
Ordinarily I'd agree with you.
But it's actually 1.5 seasons of it.
It's mentality that creates those runs.
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Absolutely, we’ve been utter brick for 1.5 seasons. No argument from me there.

I’m looking at how long we’ve gone without a win though. It’s 13 games. If that continued to the end of the season, that’s 20 games without a win. That’s Derby 07/08 levels of brick. They were the worst team in PL history. We are nowhere near that bad. It’d be absolutely unprecedented for a squad like this to put a run like that together.

That said, as @SissokoWasGood (BoL) says, this run has gone on far, far longer than I could have imagined already.

3 or 4 weeks ago, I said our fate would be decided by Palace, Forest, Brighton, Leeds and Everton at home and we needed to win 3 or 4 of those games. We’ve lost the first two comprehensively. Worrying times because, when you think it just defies common sense for it to get worse, it gets worse.
 
Thought we were alright, good even, in the first half. Second half was really bad and we looked back to looking rather clueless after better performances against Liverpool, Atletico and that first half.

All looking rather bleak now, but we're not down until we're down. We're still not even in the relegation zone. Right now difficult to see where a win could ever come from, but for me had we gotten the first goal yesterday I think there's a very decent chance we win that game.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Absolutely, we’ve been utter brick for 1.5 seasons. No argument from me there.

I’m looking at how long we’ve gone without a win though. It’s 13 games. If that continued to the end of the season, that’s 20 games without a win. That’s Derby 07/08 levels of brick. They were the worst team in PL history. We are nowhere near that bad. It’d be absolutely unprecedented for a squad like this to put a run like that together.

That said, as @SissokoWasGood (BoL) says, this run has gone on far, far longer than I could have imagined already.

3 or 4 weeks ago, I said our fate would be decided by Palace, Forest, Brighton, Leeds and Everton at home and we needed to win 3 or 4 of those games. We’ve lost the first two comprehensively. Worrying times because, when you think it just defies common sense for it to get worse, it gets worse.
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I have no doubt at all that we can go the rest of the season without a win.

I’m really hoping we won’t - but we’ve just been smashed 0-3 at home by the team who were 17th in the PL, who have scored 20% of their PL goals against us this season, and who had played 120 minutes away in Denmark less than 72 hours before playing us.

This squad is that bad, I’m afraid.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Absolutely, we’ve been utter brick for 1.5 seasons. No argument from me there.

I’m looking at how long we’ve gone without a win though. It’s 13 games. If that continued to the end of the season, that’s 20 games without a win. That’s Derby 07/08 levels of brick. They were the worst team in PL history. We are nowhere near that bad. It’d be absolutely unprecedented for a squad like this to put a run like that together.

That said, as @SissokoWasGood (BoL) says, this run has gone on far, far longer than I could have imagined already.

3 or 4 weeks ago, I said our fate would be decided by Palace, Forest, Brighton, Leeds and Everton at home and we needed to win 3 or 4 of those games. We’ve lost the first two comprehensively. Worrying times because, when you think it just defies common sense for it to get worse, it gets worse.
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2.5 seasons
 
Zavod 311 said:
74 points from our last 76 league games.
4 wins, 7 draws, 19 defeats from our last 30 home league games.
2 wins in our last 22 league games.
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Of course I knew our record was shocking, but WTF? I have no words.

I mean how have we not been relegated already?

With that kind of record what is the point of me having a season ticket?
 
It is an incredible tough situation from this point. Unless something changes, any game where we concede the 1st goal we're probably going to lose. In fact most goals against us changes the game. The confidence drains out of the players and the training ground discipline disappears. It becomes the same losing outcome.

To stay up, we need to address this. Forest looked much better coached than us. Not necessarily better player for player in all positions but optimised in what they have to work with. We are so sub-optimal and have been for such a long time.
 
Muttley said:
It is an incredible tough situation from this point. Unless something changes, any game where we concede the 1st goal we're probably going to lose. In fact most goals against us changes the game. The confidence drains out of the players and the training ground discipline disappears. It becomes the same losing outcome.

To stay up, we need to address this. Forest looked much better coached than us. Not necessarily better player for player in all positions but optimised in what they have to work with. We are so sub-optimal and have been for such a long time.
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Liverpool was good in that regard. We conceded, but kept playing alright and with a lot of effort. We seemed to really tire yesterday and I wonder if that's part of it. The midweek game we put a lot into, obviously also put a lot into the Liverpool game and think we played with a lot of energy in the first half yesterday. Haven't seen much rotation either.

For sure though whatever remains of our shattered confidence is very much fragile and it doesn't take much for the performance level to drop.

For sure also an incredibly tough situation. A good break now. A chance to work on the things you mentioned on the training ground. Hopefully we can also get Kudus back and he can make a quick recovery to good performance levels. Been sorely missed.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You could argue that. I thought we were decent last season up to probably the Ipswich game or thereabouts. Doesn’t make much difference anyway, we’ve been utter brick for longer than I thought Tottenham could be utter brick.
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We was doing alright at the beginning of this season too for a similar length of time, doesn't change that it's been an unmitigated disaster
 
braineclipse said:
Thought we were alright, good even, in the first half. Second half was really bad and we looked back to looking rather clueless after better performances against Liverpool, Atletico and that first half.

All looking rather bleak now, but we're not down until we're down. We're still not even in the relegation zone. Right now difficult to see where a win could ever come from, but for me had we gotten the first goal yesterday I think there's a very decent chance we win that game.
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First half we were the better team and playing decent. Stupid reaction at half time from Tudor. He should have left it at least 10-15mins in the second half before making a change.
 
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