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****Tottenham Hotspur v Man Utd********* OMT Official

totalspurs said:
I think it's more to do with TF's media handling skills. I've watched many now, and I'm pretty sure he uses a diffuser style with the press. Limited controversy and avoid getting into a confrontation with the press strategy.
He tells you everything in detail, but actually tells you nothing really.

It's completely the opposite of Ang and some other managers, who are very confrontational and defensive or offensive in their approach.

What did he say?
I've reviewed it 5 times (so no can challenge him and it's fits the narrative that he's analytical and he's the professional) so the amateurs like the press can't challenge him on perspective.
It's a red card he said, so based on the written law he's not refusing to get into an argument with the ref. Again the press can't challenge him on that.

Romero has apologised to his team mates and him (as he was in the same room). Can't challenge him again on Romero being so sort of pariah. The press can't challenge him on it.

Even things like the ridiculous injury situation at the club

He highlights the impact of it, without getting defensive about it. The press can't challenge him on it.

Where as Ang had the same problem and would get confrontational about it. Saying things like you try to deal with this situation. Defensive.

I'm paraphrasing, and that's my obsession from what I've been seeing.

It doesn't mean that that's what he thinks or is happening behind closed doors, it's just how he manages the press.

The press still try to get him to crack and say something... but he doesn't fall for the bait.

One of the last questions asked was are you going to strip Romero of the captaincy... his answer was No! And nothing else. End of conversation.

Others may have said "why should I?" Or "I'm the manager, I make the decision" Which would have given the press more to question and probe, and write.

I wouldn't take what TF says in the press conference with much ounce as evidence to what he really thinks.
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So we shouldn’t believe anything he says in public?

Righty ho! 😂
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
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Well we all know it's just a pair of 'Argies' doing what 'they' do (before someone admonishes me, this is sarcasm to note the tropes and preconceived notions which exist). I am old enough to remember the horrendous abuse Ossie and Ricky took around the Falklands.

Nobody springing to Romero's defence with this instance is ironic to me...
 
thfcsteff said:
Well we all know it's just a pair of 'Argies' doing what 'they' do (before someone admonishes me, this is sarcasm to note the tropes and preconceived notions which exist). I am old enough to remember the horrendous abuse Ossie and Ricky took around the Falklands.

Nobody springing to Romero's defence with this instance is ironic to me...
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Come on Steff, snap out of it mate - we need your positivity posts back and sharpish.

If you're going to go on a negative spiral then this club really is fudged :(.....
 
harr1984 said:
Come on Steff, snap out of it mate - we need your positivity posts back and sharpish.

If you're going to go on a negative spiral then this club really is fudged :(.....
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Ah mate...life is actually pretty good despite the absolute shenanigans where I live...was at two nights of Underworld in Brixton, elected to miss yesterday's game due to the (sadly ubiquitous) 'vibes' which made my last couple of away days less than ideal, am sort of at peace with the fact Tuesday will likely not be the greatest matchday experience I've had (albeit I will go with my best foot forward with good friends hoping for the best and supporting all connected with our club as I always have done)...Underworld were (as ever) phenomenal BTW...

...and yes. Those 'happy' posts are harder to dig out when the mood is so polarised. Differences of opinion are both healthy and natural we'd agree. But beyond that, well...I'm sure you'd also agree that it gets sticky.

What I wrote re: stereotypes is something I believe to be true. Sadly. But no worries, I am hopeful there will be happier Spurs-related things to write about sooner than later.
 
thfcsteff said:
Ah mate...life is actually pretty good despite the absolute shenanigans where I live...was at two nights of Underworld in Brixton, elected to miss yesterday's game due to the (sadly ubiquitous) 'vibes' which made my last couple of away days less than ideal, am sort of at peace with the fact Tuesday will likely not be the greatest matchday experience I've had (albeit I will go with my best foot forward with good friends hoping for the best and supporting all connected with our club as I always have done)...Underworld were (as ever) phenomenal BTW...

...and yes. Those 'happy' posts are harder to dig out when the mood is so polarised. Differences of opinion are both healthy and natural we'd agree. But beyond that, well...I'm sure you'd also agree that it gets sticky.

What I wrote re: stereotypes is something I believe to be true. Sadly. But no worries, I am hopeful there will be happier Spurs-related things to write about sooner than later.
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Ok great, glad you're loving life. Getting a feeling our poor form is affecting some people a bit mentally on here, I can easily detach myself from things but appreciate not everyone can (or perhaps I'm completely wrong and everyone is fine!). And if the negativity is getting to you we have no chance :D

Hope despite your fears you enjoy Tuesday, lord knows we could all do with a nice 3 point tonic....
 
harr1984 said:
Ok great, glad you're loving life. Getting a feeling our poor form is affecting some people a bit mentally on here, I can easily detach myself from things but appreciate not everyone can (or perhaps I'm completely wrong and everyone is fine!). And if the negativity is getting to you we have no chance :D

Hope despite your fears you enjoy Tuesday, lord knows we could all do with a nice 3 point tonic....
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Believe me, living where I do this is sadly a sideshow :-(

More and more I think something broke in me on June 1st 2019 AND more so that November. Honestly, I knew we would suffer, it was just my hope that said otherwise...a bit like the burst of hope I had last season which led me to believe Ange would win the EL (based on being a generally positive fan)...would it surprise you to know I have not given up on winning the Champions League? No, really 🤣🤣🤪💙

P.S i will enjoy Tuesday somehow - it is always a privilege to go to a game
 
thfcsteff said:
Believe me, living where I do this is sadly a sideshow :-(

More and more I think something broke in me on June 1st 2019 AND more so that November. Honestly, I knew we would suffer, it was just my hope that said otherwise...a bit like the burst of hope I had last season which led me to believe Ange would win the EL (based on being a generally positive fan)...would it surprise you to know I have not given up on winning the Champions League? No, really 🤣🤣🤪💙

P.S i will enjoy Tuesday somehow - it is always a privilege to go to a game
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Once the Goons, PSG, Real Madrid, Bayern and a few others get knocked out I'll be right there with you on that CL dream :)....
 
Mikey10 said:
So we shouldn’t believe anything he says in public?

Righty ho! 😂
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Well that's up to you if you want to believe everything he says at a press conference.

I see it as PR duty. So it's something else which needs to be managed professionally. The press will write whatever they want, regardless, so he needs to make sure he handles the conference.

I wouldn't take what he said as literal. There's no way someone like TF will use a press conference to showcase what's happening or not happening at the club, or create a story between him and the players.

Like I said he'll tell them everything they already know in lots of detail, without actually telling them any at all.
 
tommysvr said:
All it says is that the club has no idea what it wants to be and even less of an idea of how to get there.

The solution (narrative) proposed by so many last season was that we just needed a pragmatist! Just someone to not be so open! Not invert the wingbacks. Pay attention to set pieces. Not injure all of our players!!

No real understanding of the issues, just a quick fix. We'll do it again, and this time it'll be even harder.
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“At some point in time I’ll get replaced by ‘John the Pragmatist’ and you can all be happy and revel in it”
 
Mikey10 said:
That was the aim. Made no sense to continue on after 18 months of poor PL form and terrible, naive performances. Hasn’t worked out as yet - and maybe it won’t. Doesn’t make the original decision any less correct though.
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I'm not going to say we would have been better this season had Ange stayed in charge, impossible to know how that would have played out. Ultimately I struggle to see how Ange would have been the right man long term. But you don't know how that would have played out either.

I find it interesting how terms like "naive" are used. Pragmatic Frank isn't naive?

To me it seems "naive" to think that we can develop as a team towards where we want to be without putting a lot of effort into our buildup play, attacking from open play and chance creation.

To me it seems "naive" to think that we can offer so little attacking threat from open play and develop as a side.

To me it seems "naive" to just keep playing players like Porro, Kudus, Bentancur, Udogie just back from injury and expect anything other than an injury crisis to worsen. Got away with it with Solanke (so far). Got away with it with Romero who now gets an enforced break.
 
braineclipse said:
I'm not going to say we would have been better this season had Ange stayed in charge, impossible to know how that would have played out. Ultimately I struggle to see how Ange would have been the right man long term. But you don't know how that would have played out either.

I find it interesting how terms like "naive" are used. Pragmatic Frank isn't naive?

To me it seems "naive" to think that we can develop as a team towards where we want to be without putting a lot of effort into our buildup play, attacking from open play and chance creation.

To me it seems "naive" to think that we can offer so little attacking threat from open play and develop as a side.

To me it seems "naive" to just keep playing players like Porro, Kudus, Bentancur, Udogie just back from injury and expect anything other than an injury crisis to worsen. Got away with it with Solanke (so far). Got away with it with Romero who now gets an enforced break.
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Nah mate, that fat Aussie clam was incompetent. Frank's just unfortunate.
 
tommysvr said:
Nah mate, that fat Aussie clam was incompetent. Frank's just unfortunate.
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Last season's results in the league were actually unfortunate. Injuries, sure. Prioritising the CL, sure. But we were actually also unfortunate with regards to xG (12 points worth of unfortunate according to understat).

This season we've been unfortunate with regards to xG to the extent of 3,5 points (again understat). Looking at expected points pr game last season and this season we're essentially identical at around 1.3.

If this is progress I'd hate to see decline.
 
braineclipse said:
Last season's results in the league were actually unfortunate. Injuries, sure. Prioritising the CL, sure. But we were actually also unfortunate with regards to xG (12 points worth of unfortunate according to understat).

This season we've been unfortunate with regards to xG to the extent of 3,5 points (again understat). Looking at expected points pr game last season and this season we're essentially identical at around 1.3.

If this is progress I'd hate to see decline.
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The different this year (and I'm not being sarcastic when I write this) is that Thomas Frank has this record in the Premier League:

2021/22: 13th
2022/23: 9th
2023/24: 16th
2024/25: 10th

4 years of mid-table finishes for a Danish manager is worth more than an Australian achieving one 5th place finish, a Europa League win, two Scottish titles, a Scottish Cup, two Scottish League cups, a J.League title, 2 A-League titles and an Asian Cup.

Ange was naive and incompetent, the causer of injuries and just completely out of his depth because he came from Australia via Japan and Scotland. How could someone from those backwaters be any good at football management? Clearly those success don't count, because John from Stevenage has never watched a game from those leagues.
 
braineclipse said:
Last season's results in the league were actually unfortunate. Injuries, sure. Prioritising the CL, sure. But we were actually also unfortunate with regards to xG (12 points worth of unfortunate according to understat).

This season we've been unfortunate with regards to xG to the extent of 3,5 points (again understat). Looking at expected points pr game last season and this season we're essentially identical at around 1.3.

If this is progress I'd hate to see decline.
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I'm not someone who dismisses Xg but expected points is really not a stat worth paying any attention to.

It's only real value (Xg) is judging the quality of chances you created.

Example, If you create a load of chances at 0-0 but fail to score then go on to lose 1-0/2-0 to a team with a lower xg, expected points would give you the win based on the chances created but it doesn't take in to account the game state - you score one of those chances early on then the game changes and you may not create the chances you did before - so that Xg value in this instance only tells you that you had a lot of chances to score your first goal, expected points does not factor this in*, so it's totally worthless.

*unless there's a more sophisticated version than just balancing the two sides Xg against one another
 
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billyiddo said:
I'm not someone who dismisses Xg but expected points is really not a stat worth paying any attention to.

It's only real value (Xg) is judging the quality of chances you created.

Example, If you create a load of chances at 0-0 but fail to score then go on to lose 1-0/2-0 to a team with a lower xg, expected points would give you the win based on the chances created but it doesn't take in to account the game state - you score one of those chances early on then the game changes and you may not create the chances you did before - so that Xg value in this instance only tells you that you had a lot of chances to score your first goal, expected points does not factor this in*, so it's totally worthless.

*unless there's a more sophisticated version than just balancing the two sides Xg against one another
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Game state will swing different ways, the example above may also be one where if you score first you get a higher xG because the game opens up. Over a larger sample size teams will play in many different game states and while expected points obviously isn't some kind of perfect measure of performance it becomes a measure of chance creation and conceded chances over a season that I think adds something to a conversation.

Total xG and xG against over a season has some value? Isn't expected points just a way of calculating those together in a simpler metric?

To me for this season those xG and expected points numbers matches the eye test. We haven't been particularly unlucky with results relative to performances this season.
 
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