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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Muttley said:
I'm always thinking that Harry is the darling of the fans but not for the folks in the game itself. I think he is marmite to them. If he came to Spurs in the second half of the season to lend a helping hand, what exactly does he do? Does he become assistant manager or part of Frank's coaching team? Does Frank get to approve that? Does he get to circumvent the "typical process" and go straight to VV demanding Frank gets players? Does he just want players that Harry wants or will he represent his main stakeholder Frank? That's all a bit late now anyway with a few days left of the window.

Perhaps you should tell me in detail what Harry would be doing if he came back with Frank still in situ. It's obvious if Frank isn't, but nothing is obvious to me about bringing a marmite guy like Harry in when we have a structure in place.
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You’ve somehow missed my point all over again…. Is it on purpose?

The point I was trying to make (I thought quite clearly but maybe not?) is that I doubt Frank is going to the board and demanding players (because he’s already hanging on to his job by the thinnest of threads) when he really needs to be doing that.
 
Honestly, at this moment in time I cannot think of a more comprehensive way that any group of decision makers could fudge things up.

The 'executive branch' have -

1) Left the manager for dead - they even BRIEFED against him to the media and then pulled back. Disgraceful. They have poor Frank literally clinging to a fuc-king shared lunchtime canteen sandwichfest as 'proof' he is 'supported'. FFS, whatever anyone thinks of his work, that is a disgraceful way to treat anyone.

2) Left the squad in turmoil by NOT addressing key needs.

3) Left the supporters wondering WTF is going on?

4) NOT taken ANY decisive action either way, instead choosing to hedge their bets and see where the cookie crumbles as it crumbles.

The problem is we barely have any cookie left because the bas-tard's been crumbling for a while now. So by the time this lot recognise there needs to either be unequivocal support or a sacking, we'll be out of the transfer window, drifting towards some nasty dogfighting, and showing no decisiveness whatsoever to our star players who might then seek a way out.

As much as I think he should be sacked, I would've much, much rathered they'd made some PROPER statements of support, GIVEN him more in the window with regards to supporting him, and said to all of us, like it or not, we are BACKING him at the very LEAST until the summer.

All this cowardly bet-hedging and indecisiveness is enormously damaging to both us and Thomas Frank.
 
thfcsteff said:
Honestly, at this moment in time I cannot think of a more comprehensive way that any group of decision makers could fudge things up.

The 'executive branch' have -

1) Left the manager for dead - they even BRIEFED against him to the media and then pulled back. Disgraceful. They have poor Frank literally clinging to a fuc-king shared lunchtime canteen sandwichfest as 'proof' he is 'supported'. FFS, whatever anyone thinks of his work, that is a disgraceful way to treat anyone.

2) Left the squad in turmoil by NOT addressing key needs.

3) Left the supporters wondering WTF is going on?

4) NOT taken ANY decisive action either way, instead choosing to hedge their bets and see where the cookie crumbles as it crumbles.

The problem is we barely have any cookie left because the bas-tard's been crumbling for a while now. So by the time this lot recognise there needs to either be unequivocal support or a sacking, we'll be out of the transfer window, drifting towards some nasty dogfighting, and showing no decisiveness whatsoever to our star players who might then seek a way out.

As much as I think he should be sacked, I would've much, much rathered they'd made some PROPER statements of support, GIVEN him more in the window with regards to supporting him, and said to all of us, like it or not, we are BACKING him at the very LEAST until the summer.

All this cowardly bet-hedging and indecisiveness is enormously damaging to both us and Thomas Frank.
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It’s a good point isn’t it, that after West Ham the message was basically that they couldn’t confirm he’d be continuing, and then after the lunch it was a little bit more certain. The only mitigating thing I can think is that they wanted to have the lunch to see if HE wanted to continue? Otherwise I agree it’s a pretty shameful way to treat him.
 
Robspur12 said:
Ah Shame. Would be a fantastic signing. He's up against a lot of competition and I thought with Semenyo coming in we might be able to make things happen!
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Unfortunately these standard of players aren't going to be chomping at the bit to come to us. We've got more chance with decent level players who play in another league who want to come to the PL rather than those who are already here and performing well....
 
thfcsteff said:
Honestly, at this moment in time I cannot think of a more comprehensive way that any group of decision makers could fudge things up.

The 'executive branch' have -

1) Left the manager for dead - they even BRIEFED against him to the media and then pulled back. Disgraceful. They have poor Frank literally clinging to a fuc-king shared lunchtime canteen sandwichfest as 'proof' he is 'supported'. FFS, whatever anyone thinks of his work, that is a disgraceful way to treat anyone.

2) Left the squad in turmoil by NOT addressing key needs.

3) Left the supporters wondering WTF is going on?

4) NOT taken ANY decisive action either way, instead choosing to hedge their bets and see where the cookie crumbles as it crumbles.

The problem is we barely have any cookie left because the bas-tard's been crumbling for a while now. So by the time this lot recognise there needs to either be unequivocal support or a sacking, we'll be out of the transfer window, drifting towards some nasty dogfighting, and showing no decisiveness whatsoever to our star players who might then seek a way out.

As much as I think he should be sacked, I would've much, much rathered they'd made some PROPER statements of support, GIVEN him more in the window with regards to supporting him, and said to all of us, like it or not, we are BACKING him at the very LEAST until the summer.

All this cowardly bet-hedging and indecisiveness is enormously damaging to both us and Thomas Frank.
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I agree that there probably is a rather vast room for improvement on the decision making here, and most likely the sheer amount of changes at the upper levels since the summer probably contributes to that.

At the same time for me at least the only way to take decisive action in a situation like this is to sack him. Can offer all kinds of assurances and support, but ultimately it will end up meaningless if he loses the players at some point, or if results and performances slip significantly. So any such "he's backed until the end of the season at least" would only set up those people to the risk of having to go back on that at some point. Imo sacking him or seeing how it plays out are the only cards on the table.

The January transfer window is a difficult one. Obviously we're not as attractive right now. We don't know who our manager will be next season, maybe not even next week. Backing him significantly in the transfer market without a good security that those investments would also be good for the next guy would not be great at all.

Which again comes back to our DoF situation. The people that should be best suited to know with security that a signing would be good for the next guy would be Paratici and Lange. But Paratici is leaving and Lange's situation is probably uncertain until the DoF situation is sorted.

So we sign Gallagher, because he's a good player who will probably be good under most managers. But not a ton of those players around that we can attract and make a deal for.

As the most likely outcome of sacking him would be a caretaker those issues with transfers would be the same.

We should have course go into a kind of panic mode. Sign whoever we think will most likely make the biggest difference with regards to the threat of relegation. Future planning being left for the summer. I wouldn't be entirely against that at this point. Things definitely could get worse and even a small risk of relegation needs to be taken seriously.

So yeah. Sign Mateta or Toney, the best ready made left back we can find and worry about the future come the summer definitely isn't something I'd be opposed to. But I'm rather convinced that's not how the Lewis family envisioned a cash injection being used.

I kinda miss Levy.
 
thfcsteff said:
Honestly, at this moment in time I cannot think of a more comprehensive way that any group of decision makers could fudge things up.

The 'executive branch' have -

1) Left the manager for dead - they even BRIEFED against him to the media and then pulled back. Disgraceful. They have poor Frank literally clinging to a fuc-king shared lunchtime canteen sandwichfest as 'proof' he is 'supported'. FFS, whatever anyone thinks of his work, that is a disgraceful way to treat anyone.

2) Left the squad in turmoil by NOT addressing key needs.

3) Left the supporters wondering WTF is going on?

4) NOT taken ANY decisive action either way, instead choosing to hedge their bets and see where the cookie crumbles as it crumbles.

The problem is we barely have any cookie left because the bas-tard's been crumbling for a while now. So by the time this lot recognise there needs to either be unequivocal support or a sacking, we'll be out of the transfer window, drifting towards some nasty dogfighting, and showing no decisiveness whatsoever to our star players who might then seek a way out.

As much as I think he should be sacked, I would've much, much rathered they'd made some PROPER statements of support, GIVEN him more in the window with regards to supporting him, and said to all of us, like it or not, we are BACKING him at the very LEAST until the summer.

All this cowardly bet-hedging and indecisiveness is enormously damaging to both us and Thomas Frank.
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I think it’s a matter of perspective.

None of us know the facts.

1. Their backing of Frank (or not) is private conversation between them. What has been alleged or deduced by the press isn’t fact.

2. We don’t know who they are trying to bring in, or who has fallen through. These things are not easy, you can do everything right and still not get what you want.

3. When has that not been the case, 30 years ago we found out who we signed when we saw the photo in the next mornings paper.

4. Frank still being in the job could be them taking decisive action.

I think as fans, we have become so entitled in many ways, not least of which is demand for needing our bellies rubbed constantly.

The behaviour of the more vocal fan base, and particularly organised groups, has been disgusting for years.
 
Baleforce said:
I think it’s a matter of perspective.

None of us know the facts.

1. Their backing of Frank (or not) is private conversation between them. What has been alleged or deduced by the press isn’t fact.

2. We don’t know who they are trying to bring in, or who has fallen through. These things are not easy, you can do everything right and still not get what you want.

3. When has that not been the case, 30 years ago we found out who we signed when we saw the photo in the next mornings paper.

4. Frank still being in the job could be them taking decisive action.

I think as fans, we have become so entitled in many ways, not least of which is demand for needing our bellies rubbed constantly.

The behaviour of the more vocal fan base, and particularly organised groups, has been disgusting for years.
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That's an interesting take, but I still think they could have done better.

Like it or not, their manager is under huge pressure. A guy they claimed was the outstanding candidate after a thorough assessment process. Six months into the job, it looks like we could be dragged into a relegation battle and, regardless of what we think of the squad, there isn't a single person who thinks Frank is over-performing.

If you want to take 'decisive action', you a) make it very clear he's not going anywhere, even if the situation deteriorate further and b) give him at least one marquee signing, as a sign of support.

They clearly haven't delivered on a). Every day we hear rumours about Frank's future at the club hanging by a thread and some directors who want to make sure everybody knows they want him gone. If it's made up, how long would it take for them to make an official statement?

As for b), even if you can't get the signing you or the manager wanted, you let the press (and the fans) know you tried. Transfer rumours are a good way to divert some fan pressure off the manager onto the board. That's where, in my opinion, they are doing a very poor job: they don't want to accept any responsibility for what's going on at the club. They don't want to back him, they don't want to sack him and they certainly don't want to get their hands dirty.

So we're left with a manager whose brand of football is disliked by most people (your good self excepted!) and a mediocre squad with zero investment so far. If that's good enough to finish 17th again, we can count ourselves lucky.

When a club like Spurs hovers over the relegation line, there's going to be some pressure. The only question is how you spread it and, so far, the board have left Frank alone on the frontline.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
That's an interesting take, but I still think they could have done better.

Like it or not, their manager is under huge pressure. A guy they claimed was the outstanding candidate after a thorough assessment process. Six months into the job, it looks like we could be dragged into a relegation battle and, regardless of what we think of the squad, there isn't a single person who thinks Frank is over-performing.

If you want to take 'decisive action', you a) make it very clear he's not going anywhere, even if the situation deteriorate further and b) give him at least one marquee signing, as a sign of support.

They clearly haven't delivered on a). Every day we hear rumours about Frank's future at the club hanging by a thread and some directors who want to make sure everybody knows they want him gone. If it's made up, how long would it take for them to make an official statement?

As for b), even if you can't get the signing you or the manager wanted, you let the press (and the fans) know you tried. Transfer rumours are a good way to divert some fan pressure off the manager onto the board. That's where, in my opinion, they are doing a very poor job: they don't want to accept any responsibility for what's going on at the club. They don't want to back him, they don't want to sack him and they certainly don't want to get their hands dirty.

So we're left with a manager whose brand of football is disliked by most people (your good self excepted!) and a mediocre squad with zero investment so far. If that's good enough to finish 17th again, we can count ourselves lucky.

When a club like Spurs hovers over the relegation line, there's going to be some pressure. The only question is how you spread it and, so far, the board have left Frank alone on the frontline.
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A fair and decent summary on the surface....however, we need to wait for the window to close to really judge a lot of things mentioned.

Would you be able to come back the day after the Emirates Marketing Project game (i assume the window shuts then?) to give another summary?
 
glorygloryeze said:
A fair and decent summary on the surface....however, we need to wait for the window to close to really judge a lot of things mentioned.

Would you be able to come back the day after the Emirates Marketing Project game (i assume the window shuts then?) to give another summary?
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As luck would have it, I saw after posting this that there are a lot of transfer rumours flying around. As usual, it's only my two pence and by no means do I claim to be an expert. I know my post tends to be rather... assertive, but that's just because English isn't my first language.

In any case, I do hope I'll be able to spout more nonsense after than Emirates Marketing Project game - I'm too young to die !!!
 
glorygloryeze said:
A fair and decent summary on the surface....however, we need to wait for the window to close to really judge a lot of things mentioned.

Would you be able to come back the day after the Emirates Marketing Project game (i assume the window shuts then?) to give another summary?
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Not really, January was the moment Frank won't get again.

I said it as well, as of Fulham game (end of November), Frank was in deep trouble, assuming the club was going to stick, as @Mr Gogolak said, they need to back him, marquee signing, probably at least 2 immediate 1st team players. Get them in early in January and you had that run of Brentford, Bournemouth, Sunderland, West Ham, Burnley, that run we now have gotten 3 points from, if we had gotten 9 (just 9), we would be top 8 and 4 points off 4th, would be a very different place.

February is a very difficult run, the extra games without reinforcements is already adding injuries, the fans have already turned on him, and the season is pretty much gone.

Criminal negligence by the people running the club
 
Raziel said:
Not really, January was the moment Frank won't get again.

I said it as well, as of Fulham game (end of November), Frank was in deep trouble, assuming the club was going to stick, as @Mr Gogolak said, they need to back him, marquee signing, probably at least 2 immediate 1st team players. Get them in early in January and you had that run of Brentford, Bournemouth, Sunderland, West Ham, Burnley, that run we now have gotten 3 points from, if we had gotten 9 (just 9), we would be top 8 and 4 points off 4th, would be a very different place.

February is a very difficult run, the extra games without reinforcements is already adding injuries, the fans have already turned on him, and the season is pretty much gone.

Criminal negligence by the people running the club
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As i say, the club might be still trying to get a deal or two over line as things stand; after all we are not a good sell.
And as i've often said, what we are doing right now is not much different to how we have operated in January for years...
 
glorygloryeze said:
As i say, the club might be still trying to get a deal or two over line as things stand; after all we are not a good sell.
And as i've often said, what we are doing right now is not much different to how we have operated in January for years...
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People get paid a lot of money to deliver certain results (Frank as manager, Lange as recruitment)

Not being a dingdong, I've worked jobs for 20+ years that pay well, but failure (every year) = fired, it's part of the expectation. And part of that expectation is the reason they pay you is because you have the skills to do those difficult things.

Look, maybe we sign two good players on deadline day, and the team meanders to mid table safety, it's still a death sentence for Frank, and maybe that decision has already been made so they don't care, but thet have taken a risk with the club
 
Raziel said:
People get paid a lot of money to deliver certain results (Frank as manager, Lange as recruitment)

Not being a dingdong, I've worked jobs for 20+ years that pay well, but failure (every year) = fired, it's part of the expectation. And part of that expectation is the reason they pay you is because you have the skills to do those difficult things.

Look, maybe we sign two good players on deadline day, and the team meanders to mid table safety, it's still a death sentence for Frank, and maybe that decision has already been made so they don't care, but thet have taken a risk with the club
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The owners we have aren't doing anything much different to what they've done the last 20 odd years...the risks they are taking now could ultimately get us relegated....and that will be fair given the constantly inconsistent footballing decisions they've always made (we are not seeing anything new).
 
glorygloryeze said:
The owners we have aren't doing anything much different to what they've done the last 20 odd years...the risks they are taking now could ultimately get us relegated....and that will be fair given the constantly inconsistent footballing decisions they've always made (we are not seeing anything new).
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Bingo, every day it looks more like Levy was shielding us from these idiots vs. the story they want to pitch. For all his issues, he would never risk the club, he would not let us sleepwalk into a relegation battle.
 
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