Frank Give him time or get rid?

billyiddo said:

Right, so I was going off the Bentancur prog passes bar chart that someone had posted earlier - Xgstat has Bentancur at 6.42 for last season so .5 ish higher than Noorgard, but for all intents & purposes same ball park. I think this still falls within my reasoning that Brentford played a different brand of football to what we are seeing deployed here.

Hard to say - managers don't tend to get too long at clubs to see about much of a style change, Arteta has gone the other way - become less progressive/open over time and of course there's always the old adage regarding building from the back. Emery, maybe - though I don't follow them too closely.

Managers coming in to clubs our size generally don't walk in to the situation where we had so many injuries and so many defeats/goals against the season prior eg big issues that need addressing. Maybe he has over-thought how much consideration those issues needed considering?

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Different yes. I'm unsure on the extent of that difference. Didn't watch them that much, but what I did see it wasn't like a night and day difference between that and what we're seeing here in terms of style.

I agree that's the old adage. It's one I don't see much current truth value to for a club our size. The lack of examples of success stories with that approach at least gives less credence to an approach like that.

Maybe he has overthought it. I think more likely he's come here and done what most managers do. Try to do what got them into the job in the first place.

I've made this somewhat snarky point before. But it was argued that he was flexible and would adjust to the squad he had. He came in and mostly did the same thing he did with Brentford at first (in the PL at least). "Surpringly" our squad and Brentford's squad suited a similar style (to start with).

To be honest, fair enough. That's how he works, the club hired him. It's not what I would have preferred. But if that's his plan I would have preferred if he would have just come out and say that. (Wouldn't have made things better I think, just a preference).

thfcsteff said:

Thing is mate, I agree with your last sentence and it doesn’t match up with what he was saying at the start of the season. Defeats/goals against are one thing, but he also walked into a club on a massive, massive high and having won a major trophy. You would surely calibrate and use that energy. Instead, it is all a far more distant memory than it should be.

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Does it really matter? - is that where we are, holding a manager to task for what was said in press conferences having just joined? Do we not allow room for a new guy being positive before realising the job at hand was maybe tougher than he thought?

Finney Is Back said:

So in a nutshell we are really, really badly coached.

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I am glad someone has visually articulated what I think is obvious to the eyes.

billyiddo said:

Does it really matter? - is that where we are, holding a manager to task for what was said in press conferences having just joined? Do we not allow room for a new guy being positive before realising the job at hand was maybe tougher than he thought?

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No mate, it’s not where we are, simply part of it.

Essentially it feels to me that the general nature of these discussions (across the forum not ours per se) come down to one thing.
Do you believe he deserves time simply because of the concept of giving someone time regardless of the current situation?
Do you believe there is no sign at all that anything is going to change in even a reasonable amount of time (say two seasons)?

Personally, I think there is huge factor at play with regards to those directly above Frank. Who are they?? What do they want us to be?? Who can they attract player-wise to this club?? Will the New Boss pay wages in lieu of European football? I would, for example, love Xabi Alonso to waltz into the building and transform the club, however I cannot say with any degree of confidence that the current lot would support him properly.

Back to the ‘optimism’ comment. I allow anyone optimism (being generally an optimist myself) however when some of the early sentiments expressed (standing on the shoulders of others, great foundations) get flipped a few months later to (17th last season, not really a CL club because it came through a cup, there’s a lot of work to do here, fans don’t understand) then I have some issues. Again, in Frank’s defence he is being left dangling in the wind by the spineless suits around him, and as such is dealing with things he will never have dealt with before. I have sympathy.

billyiddo said:

Does it really matter? - is that where we are, holding a manager to task for what was said in press conferences having just joined? Do we not allow room for a new guy being positive before realising the job at hand was maybe tougher than he thought?

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If he’d been in any way negative (realistic) then you can imagine the ensuing meltdown.

Mikey10 said:

If he’d been in any way negative (realistic) then you can imagine the ensuing meltdown.

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And I get that.
But optimistic platitudes are easy to generate. These were very specific comments. He appears to have either not done his own due diligence or been caught out!
Again, in mitigation, the guy who hired him
was ousted two months later and that cannot be easy.