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Frank Give him time or get rid?

Thomas Frank give him time or get rid?

  • Give him until the summer

  • Give him until Christmas

  • Get rid now

Results are only viewable after voting.
billyiddo said:
Depends on what you consider to be Frank's prefered style of play.

As previously mentioned, at Brentford last year both Noorgard and Damsgard were playing progressive vertical passes through the middle of the pitch (both with more progressive passes than anything Bentancur has shown in the PL) and Brentford used the middle of the pitch for progression as much as either wing (more so than us last season and certainly this season) i think either Frank doesn't trust our CM options wrt giving up possession (maybe the data from last season shows this is where our high number of goals conceded comes from?) and/or he is starting here with a more basic, cautious approach before tweaking it. It doesn't make sense to me that he would consider this style of play the end goal given his best football at Brentford came off the back of something different.
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According to fbref Bentancur played more progressive passes pr. 90 than Nørgaard last season (5.5 vs 4.9). Season before that Bentancur's numbers were even higher.

Didn't Frank do a similar thing at Brentford? Brentford 2.0 and all that. Maybe they didn't have good enough players for that early on either. Or maybe that's how he works. Safety first, the rest can come later?

While capable of more progressive play than he's shown this season Bentancur is also a fairly high risk player when he plays like that. Lacks awareness imo and is probably more at risk of losing the ball than Nørgaard (just an impression, haven't watched Nørgaard that much).

But that also shows priorities, assuming Frank had a solid say in who we signed. Of the non teenage options Bissouma seemed unwanted, of Sarr and Bentancur neither are deep playmakers, but Bentancur is the most progressive on the ball. So having no deep midfielder capable of playing progressive passes in a way that satisfies Frank we sign Palhinha. Which again points towards safety first, rest can come later.
 
braineclipse said:
No it isn't.

We spent two years trying to assemble a squad for Angeball, never completing that. Then now trying to shape that into a Frankball squad, spend two years doing that then try to have a half assembled Frankball squad try to play Nextguyball

My opinion is get an identity first anchored higher up than the head coach, then have or get a coach who has significant experience playing something that fits with that. Must admit though, Alonso getting sacked... Could we?
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While that is fine logically/conceptually, is it really an issue?

- Current back line could play 4 or 3atb with ease, we have FBs that can play both FB/WB roles
- We have a strong DM
- We have wingers/AMs that are pretty flexible and can play both sides
- When fit, you have 2 creative midfielders in Madders & Xavi
- You can put a lot of running in midfield w/Gray, Bergvall, Sarr
- There is enough pace in the side

Our main "specialist" player was Johnson and we sold him

This squad could play 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, I really struggle to see a system manager that couldn't get this to work. Quality wise I think CF, another midfielder and likely GK (if you want a passing keeper) would be obvious upgrades but not sure I buy the x manager wouldn't work because we don't have players that could make that system work (as vs. say United, who clearly didn't have the backline for Amorim's 3atb, or 2 DMs, or any pace/legs in midfield for that system)
 
braineclipse said:
According to fbref Bentancur played more progressive passes pr. 90 than Nørgaard last season (5.5 vs 4.9). Season before that Bentancur's numbers were even higher.

Didn't Frank do a similar thing at Brentford? Brentford 2.0 and all that. Maybe they didn't have good enough players for that early on either. Or maybe that's how he works. Safety first, the rest can come later?

While capable of more progressive play than he's shown this season Bentancur is also a fairly high risk player when he plays like that. Lacks awareness imo and is probably more at risk of losing the ball than Nørgaard (just an impression, haven't watched Nørgaard that much).

But that also shows priorities, assuming Frank had a solid say in who we signed. Of the non teenage options Bissouma seemed unwanted, of Sarr and Bentancur neither are deep playmakers, but Bentancur is the most progressive on the ball. So having no deep midfielder capable of playing progressive passes in a way that satisfies Frank we sign Palhinha. Which again points towards safety first, rest can come later.
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Xgstat.com has Noorgard as 5.99 for last season.

Agree in principal re:safety first and then developing from there
 
Raziel said:
While that is fine logically/conceptually, is it really an issue?

- Current back line could play 4 or 3atb with ease, we have FBs that can play both FB/WB roles
- We have a strong DM
- We have wingers/AMs that are pretty flexible and can play both sides
- When fit, you have 2 creative midfielders in Madders & Xavi
- You can put a lot of running in midfield w/Gray, Bergvall, Sarr
- There is enough pace in the side

Our main "specialist" player was Johnson and we sold him

This squad could play 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3, 4-4-2, 3-5-2, I really struggle to see a system manager that couldn't get this to work. Quality wise I think CF, another midfielder and likely GK (if you want a passing keeper) would be obvious upgrades but not sure I buy the x manager wouldn't work because we don't have players that could make that system work (as vs. say United, who clearly didn't have the backline for Amorim's 3atb, or 2 DMs, or any pace/legs in midfield for that system)
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It's been an issue. We have some fairly versatile players and that makes it easier for sure. I think our recruitment has been quite good in recent years, just rather long term focused meaning it will take some time.

Keep signing players who can work in multiple systems, flexible and well rounded players and it could be fine over time, sure. With imo a lot of talent in the squad things could get better just with time, and those players could be moulded different ways.

Midfield remains unbalanced, no real deep playmaker. Lack of passers overall remains an imbalance. For a long ball strategy we imo lack a real proper target man (Solanke will be fine at that I think, but not exceptional as a target man, hold up player the way I see it).

Sure keep up what we're doing, then give Frank or the next guy what they need to make their system work. Could work. But I think a clear identity would make it easier.
 
billyiddo said:
Xgstat.com has Noorgard as 5.99 for last season.

Agree in principal re:safety first and then developing from there
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What do they have Bentancur as last season and the season before that? (sorry, looked, but couldn't find it myself).

Yeah. It's who he is and it's who we are for the time being at least.

Been asked before, sorry if you've already answered this earlier. But are there examples of managers succeeding with that safety first and then develop from there for a club our size-ish?
 
clownfoot said:
If he were to come to us and say for instance he does an amazing job, as good a job as he did at Leverkusen - it’s always on the cards that he ends up at Liverpool and they come and get him whenever Slot runs out of favour
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My GHod.... Are we now deciding that we don't want a manager in case he does so well for us that a bigger club will want him?

Maybe that's what the attraction was with Thomas Frank?.... Nobody bigger is ever likely to want him :D
 
braineclipse said:
What do they have Bentancur as last season and the season before that? (sorry, looked, but couldn't find it myself).

Yeah. It's who he is and it's who we are for the time being at least.

Been asked before, sorry if you've already answered this earlier. But are there examples of managers succeeding with that safety first and then develop from there for a club our size-ish?
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Right, so I was going off the Bentancur prog passes bar chart that someone had posted earlier - Xgstat has Bentancur at 6.42 for last season so .5 ish higher than Noorgard, but for all intents & purposes same ball park. I think this still falls within my reasoning that Brentford played a different brand of football to what we are seeing deployed here.

Hard to say - managers don't tend to get too long at clubs to see about much of a style change, Arteta has gone the other way - become less progressive/open over time and of course there's always the old adage regarding building from the back. Emery, maybe - though I don't follow them too closely.

Managers coming in to clubs our size generally don't walk in to the situation where we had so many injuries and so many defeats/goals against the season prior eg big issues that need addressing. Maybe he has over-thought how much consideration those issues needed considering?
 
Finney Is Back said:
So in a nutshell we are really, really badly coached.
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i think the most baffling thing is that it is his coaching skills which were/are so heavily valued. I think the only conclusion is we are seeing a combination of deep-held philosophy on his part, some fear, a lot of unhelpful turbulence around him and his own hope/belief that he will get 2-3 seasons to make it work. I actually do think that, eventually, we’d be OK (albeit in a style that I am not a fan of), the problem is we are not a club where time can afford to stand still long enough for that to possibly happen. Right now he strikes me as coming out of some form of rude shellshock. I refuse to believe he is a naff coach -the man is obviously extremely good- but the question (as it always has been) is whether he can scale-up in the necessary amount of time and with the appropriate percentage of style. Jesus, sorry, I realise I just played the same track for the hundredth time this season LOL…
 
billyiddo said:
Right, so I was going off the Bentancur prog passes bar chart that someone had posted earlier - Xgstat has Bentancur at 6.42 for last season so .5 ish higher than Noorgard, but for all intents & purposes same ball park. I think this still falls within my reasoning that Brentford played a different brand of football to what we are seeing deployed here.

Hard to say - managers don't tend to get too long at clubs to see about much of a style change, Arteta has gone the other way - become less progressive/open over time and of course there's always the old adage regarding building from the back. Emery, maybe - though I don't follow them too closely.

Managers coming in to clubs our size generally don't walk in to the situation where we had so many injuries and so many defeats/goals against the season prior eg big issues that need addressing. Maybe he has over-thought how much consideration those issues needed considering?
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Thing is mate, I agree with your last sentence and it doesn’t match up with what he was saying at the start of the season. Defeats/goals against are one thing, but he also walked into a club on a massive, massive high and having won a major trophy. You would surely calibrate and use that energy. Instead, it is all a far more distant memory than it should be.
 
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