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Archie Gray

Bedfordspurs said:
Was the best player on the pitch
Appreciate Xavi getting the plaudits as he was great but everything about Archies game today top drawer
Maybe all xavi needed was a passer in midfield trying to find him
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Didn't think he was outstanding as such, but good, very good even. Did his job defensively and was tidy, good and progressive with the ball at his feet. Was imo what we could expect from him in that role.

May be my imagination and difficult to say as Brentford weren't very good, but his off the ball movement seemed to me to create space for others in our buildup. As well as him being good on the ball himself when he got it.

Hope to see him in that role way more than we've seen so far this season.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
His control and positioning compared to Bergvall is so much better
Bergvall thrives in energy and drive
I think the pair of them will be a cracking blend in the future but Frank ball needs control right now and Archie does that, or tries to
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Yeah Bergvall is way more risky on the ball than Bergvall. Though I also think Bergvall is better a bit deeper and showed last season what he can do in a role like that.

But Gray is up there as one of our players with the most control and composure on the ball in tight areas and in terms of then also doing useful things with the ball in those situations. He also seems to have a good awareness defensively.
 
braineclipse said:
Didn't think he was outstanding as such, but good, very good even. Did his job defensively and was tidy, good and progressive with the ball at his feet. Was imo what we could expect from him in that role.

May be my imagination and difficult to say as Brentford weren't very good, but his off the ball movement seemed to me to create space for others in our buildup. As well as him being good on the ball himself when he got it.

Hope to see him in that role way more than we've seen so far this season.
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Was you at the ground or watching on TV?
I have no idea how TV covered it but he was always in the right place… I haven’t seen a spurs player did that in years
And I loved him early in the second half telling Kudus and Richy where to go to press them down the right
Weirdly the only player I’ve seen do similar in recent years is George abbot for the youth team
So important ro keep us organised
 
braineclipse said:
Yeah Bergvall is way more risky on the ball than Bergvall. Though I also think Bergvall is better a bit deeper and showed last season what he can do in a role like that.

But Gray is up there as one of our players with the most control and composure on the ball in tight areas and in terms of then also doing useful things with the ball in those situations. He also seems to have a good awareness defensively.
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Is Bergvall schizophrenic??
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Was you at the ground or watching on TV?
I have no idea how TV covered it but he was always in the right place… I haven’t seen a spurs player did that in years
And I loved him early in the second half telling Kudus and Richy where to go to press them down the right
Weirdly the only player I’ve seen do similar in recent years is George abbot for the youth team
So important ro keep us organised
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Just on the TV.

I agree that he did really well, I just think the bar for those things has been set so low by others. I think Gray has the quality to do way more than this given a bit of time and experience in that role at this level. I think he will become outstanding, or is very likely to become that. I would rather see him start most games and for his current weaknesses to be exposed than for us to keep plodding around unable to play through the middle. I really rate him, just think there's more to come and another step or two before he's that player.
 
braineclipse said:
Just on the TV.

I agree that he did really well, I just think the bar for those things has been set so low by others. I think Gray has the quality to do way more than this given a bit of time and experience in that role at this level. I think he will become outstanding, or is very likely to become that. I would rather see him start most games and for his current weaknesses to be exposed than for us to keep plodding around unable to play through the middle. I really rate him, just think there's more to come and another step or two before he's that player.
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There is more to come
He is a kid in reality
But he plays with no fear
That’s a rare beast and IMO comes either with youth or being world class
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Was you at the ground or watching on TV?
I have no idea how TV covered it but he was always in the right place… I haven’t seen a spurs player did that in years
And I loved him early in the second half telling Kudus and Richy where to go to press them down the right
Weirdly the only player I’ve seen do similar in recent years is George abbot for the youth team
So important ro keep us organised
Click to expand...
A different way of answering your question.

Post PSG we discussed that pass from Romero to Sarr. I think had that been Gray receiving that the pass from Romero would have gotten essentially zero attention because Gray would have done something with it. He's that good. But that's compared to Sarr, Palhinha and to some extent Bentancur. Players who aren't very good at all to maybe alright on a good day in situations like that. Gray shines in comparison, give him a year or two and he'll shine by a much higher comparison is my point.
 
braineclipse said:
A different way of answering your question.

Post PSG we discussed that pass from Romero to Sarr. I think had that been Gray receiving that the pass from Romero would have gotten essentially zero attention because Gray would have done something with it. He's that good. But that's compared to Sarr, Palhinha and to some extent Bentancur. Players who aren't very good at all to maybe alright on a good day in situations like that. Gray shines in comparison, give him a year or two and he'll shine by a much higher comparison is my point.
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Yep
Fully agree
And if we can replace bentacur with a player who can pass even better
Win win
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yep
Fully agree
And if we can replace bentacur with a player who can pass even better
Win win
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Definitely room for improvement on Bentancur. But I also think Bentancur has been unfairly spacegoated for things that aren't his fault. Him and Gray could be a rather good double pivot, complimentary skills, both fairly well rounded.

In terms of ball progression Bentancur imo is quite clearly the best of him, Sarr and Palhinha. But playing two of those three should imo be reserved for tougher games, seeing out games in a defensive way etc.
 
braineclipse said:
Definitely room for improvement on Bentancur. But I also think Bentancur has been unfairly spacegoated for things that aren't his fault. Him and Gray could be a rather good double pivot, complimentary skills, both fairly well rounded.

In terms of ball progression Bentancur imo is quite clearly the best of him, Sarr and Palhinha. But playing two of those three should imo be reserved for tougher games, seeing out games in a defensive way etc.
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Yep
We have seen bentacur at more dynamically
Hard to gauge on Saturday because Brentford looked tired and unable to move the ball (Our pre was great)
Be good to see it again Sunday
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yep
We have seen bentacur at more dynamically
Hard to gauge on Saturday because Brentford looked tired and unable to move the ball (Our pre was great)
Be good to see it again Sunday
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My hope would be that we see way more of Gray as one of two deep midfielders and in the not so distant future see Bergvall as one of two deep midfielders too. Probably too early for them as a pairing.

Which combinations work best and in which games is a different question. In my head I could see Gray work well with either one of those other options. In part because of how well rounded and versatile he is.

Perhaps Frank sees it differently though and Gray will only be an option for (on paper, no easy game qualifying type sentence) easier opponents. I hope not though.
 
braineclipse said:
My hope would be that we see way more of Gray as one of two deep midfielders and in the not so distant future see Bergvall as one of two deep midfielders too. Probably too early for them as a pairing.

Which combinations work best and in which games is a different question. In my head I could see Gray work well with either one of those other options. In part because of how well rounded and versatile he is.

Perhaps Frank sees it differently though and Gray will only be an option for (on paper, no easy game qualifying type sentence) easier opponents. I hope not though.
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Can’t really gauge how franks sees his midfield at the moment as it’s different every game
But gray was IMO the stand out Saturday and merits starting the next game
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Can’t really gauge how franks sees his midfield at the moment as it’s different every game
But gray was IMO the stand out Saturday and merits starting the next game
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Time will tell.

I've been at least somewhat critical of Frank. If over a somewhat longer timeline he's able to integrate Gray and Bergvall in a way that allows us to be fairly solid defensively while being able to use their obvious qualities on the ball to our advantage that will be a significant step in the right direction. If it takes some months (up until now), half a season or more perhaps less important than doing so successfully.
 
braineclipse said:
Time will tell.

I've been at least somewhat critical of Frank. If over a somewhat longer timeline he's able to integrate Gray and Bergvall in a way that allows us to be fairly solid defensively while being able to use their obvious qualities on the ball to our advantage that will be a significant step in the right direction. If it takes some months (up until now), half a season or more perhaps less important than doing so successfully.
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Yep
We will see
 
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