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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Baleforce said:
I’m nearly 50, I don’t think I saw a flown St George’s Cross for the first 30 years of my life, always Union Flags instead.

England Football and cricket fans would have Union flags in the 80’s 90’s in my mind (I may be misremembering).

Something changed at some point with Football, but the wider shift strongly suggests something sinister to me, even more so since Brexit, and it’s ratcheted up again in recent months.
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It's similar here in regards to the saltire. Twenty years ago you were as likely to see a red hand of ulster flag or a republic of Ireland one. How fudged up is that.

Yes I'm sure there are plenty who use the England flag for sinister purposes, but do you not think that some of it could be do with things like the success of the lionesses, or the England women's rugby team (10s of thousands attend those games) and even in the men's England team and their very good runs under Southgate?
It's up to the normal decent people to say this is our flag, we are proud of it, yes we acknowledge that in the past not all the actions carried out under it were honourable but this is a different time and we are different people, we will not allow the actions of a minority to sully it or define us.
 
Baleforce said:
I’m nearly 50, I don’t think I saw a flown St George’s Cross for the first 30 years of my life, always Union Flags instead.

England Football and cricket fans would have Union flags in the 80’s 90’s in my mind (I may be misremembering).

Something changed at some point with Football, but the wider shift strongly suggests something sinister to me, even more so since Brexit, and it’s ratcheted up again in recent months.
Click to expand...

I remember the England flag first really appearing around the time of Euro 96. Italia 90 was definitely still majority union flags for England. Towards the late 90s England kits started becoming more white and red only, i.e. consciously losing the blue shorts and socks, to try and definitely say England, not just aka Britain.

I think there was actually some sense around Euro 96 that the English flag was 'cleaner' than the union flag, which had bad BNP connotations at the time. That's obviously not lasted.
 
glasgowspur said:
It's similar here in regards to the saltire. Twenty years ago you were as likely to see a red hand of ulster flag or a republic of Ireland one. How fudged up is that.

Yes I'm sure there are plenty who use the England flag for sinister purposes, but do you not think that some of it could be do with things like the success of the lionesses, or the England women's rugby team (10s of thousands attend those games) and even in the men's England team and their very good runs under Southgate?
It's up to the normal decent people to say this is our flag, we are proud of it, yes we acknowledge that in the past not all the actions carried out under it were honourable but this is a different time and we are different people, we will not allow the actions of a minority to sully it or define us.
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I'm sure some of it is.

But I live about 10 miles away from the Bell hotel in Epping, they have all gone up, and the roundabouts and zebra crossings painted, in the last week, not during the weeks when the tournaments were running.

It's not the flag that's the issue*, it's the politics that have led someone to display it in that manner that bothers me.

*Although when I (bolded and italicised) see it, I do think EDL before I think England.
 
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Baleforce said:
I'm sure some of it is.

But I live about 10 miles away from the Bell hotel in Epping, they have all gone up, and the roundabouts and zebra crossings painted, in the last week, not during the weeks when the tournaments were running.

It's not the flag that's the issue*, it's the politics that have led someone to display it in that manner that bothers me.

*Although when I (bolded and italicised) see it, I do think EDL before I think England.
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That's fair, there's obvious evidence to support your view in those situations.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I remember the England flag first really appearing around the time of Euro 96. Italia 90 was definitely still majority union flags for England. Towards the late 90s England kits started becoming more white and red only, i.e. consciously losing the blue shorts and socks, to try and definitely say England, not just aka Britain.

I think there was actually some sense around Euro 96 that the English flag was 'cleaner' than the union flag, which had bad BNP connotations at the time. That's obviously not lasted.
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Yeah the far right in this country have generally always gone with a "British" identity rather than an English identity. The EDL was a short-lived exception.
 
In other news, it looks like the second French government formed since the election is on the verge of collapse, as Macron's lot try and get an austerity budget through to tackle their huge national debt ...which is opposed by both the far left and far right....
 
johnola said:
you are being evasive again. Nevermind.
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I really am not. You decided 1500 years was where history stsrted in this country and discounted that there were pagans here before that. The same way you discount that we live in a largely non religious soicety now hence we are, in reality, not a Christian country and are not required to be one. Such are our freedoms. That doesn't discount from the good values that come from church and other faith institutions. But I believe society is what it is in spite of faith.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
In other news, it looks like the second French government formed since the election is on the verge of collapse, as Macron's lot try and get an austerity budget through to tackle their huge national debt ...which is opposed by both the far left and far right....
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I wouldn't really describe basic socialists as far left. France has been battling between Macron's economic extreme neo-libs and Le Pen's far right. Their left hasn't had a look in since Hollande. Hopefully Melenchon will get in a PM as a result of this, then step up to president in 2027. They've being going down a bad path for too long, a bit like we did in those 12 years with Osborne, May Johnson, Truss etc.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I wouldn't really describe basic socialists as far left. France has been battling between Macron's economic extreme neo-libs and Le Pen's far right. Their left hasn't had a look in since Hollande. Hopefully Melenchon will get in a PM as a result of this, then step up to president in 2027. They've being going down a bad path for too long, a bit like we did in those 12 years with Osborne, May Johnson, Truss etc.
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The socialists are only one part of the NPF left-wing alliance, which is a coalition of left-wing parties that include the traditional French socialist party but also the communist party and far-left "France Unbowed" who are basically on the other end of the horseshoe from FN, opposite, but on the same level.

They've ended up in a sh*t show 3-way split in Parliament as people voted tactically to keep the far right out so you had people voting for the left alliance in areas where they could beat FN and others voting for Macron's party in similar situations. I don't see that changing any time soon as FN have too much voters support now so people are voting against them rather than for anything else and I think France will have unstable coalitions for the foreseeable.

I think the same will happen in this country where tactical voting against Reform will dominate the next election and mean Reform will get the largest vote share and the most seats but will be short of power and Starmer will be propped up as head of an unstable minority coalition government.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Religion is dying out because like anything over time people question is authenticity and accuracy. With time comes discovery and people have discovered A - They don't really like what religion stands for and B - It might just be a load of old fairy tales aimed at scaring people to tow the line.
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Probably more like they don't know how to use social media.
A Dinosaur player in the attention economy.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Religion is dying out because like anything over time people question is authenticity and accuracy. With time comes discovery and people have discovered A - They don't really like what religion stands for and B - It might just be a load of old fairy tales aimed at scaring people to tow the line.
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The fundamental issue with religion is that there are so many religions and they can't all be right.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
The sun is effectively GHod anyway, all the planets and molecules were created by the gravitational pull of the sun causing dust ignited by its birth to clump together and then its warmth and light ignited and sustainec the process of life on Earth
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Actually the sun itself is the coalesced offspring of the remnants of a previous star.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
The sun is effectively GHod anyway, all the planets and molecules were created by the gravitational pull of the sun causing dust ignited by its birth to clump together and then its warmth and light ignited and sustainec the process of life on Earth
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I am a sun worshiper too, of sorts. I got a 5kw battery delivered there last week. Prices of these things are dropping fast. I should have it connected in a few weeks, and I'm hoping it will cut my electric bill in half.

Yep we're all made of cosmic dust traveling through space since the birth of the universe. Except for Farage. He's made of brick.
 
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Rorschach said:
I am a sun worshiper too, of sorts. I got a 5kw battery delivered there last week. Prices of these things are dropping fast. I should have it connected in a few weeks, and I'm hoping it will cut my electric bill in half.
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If they're dropping fast...I'd have bought it the day before I was ready to connect it :)
 
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