Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[glasgowspur]

I’m nearly 50, I don’t think I saw a flown St George’s Cross for the first 30 years of my life, always Union Flags instead.

England Football and cricket fans would have Union flags in the 80’s 90’s in my mind (I may be misremembering).

Something changed at some point with Football, but the wider shift strongly suggests something sinister to me, even more so since Brexit, and it’s ratcheted up again in recent months.

It's similar here in regards to the saltire. Twenty years ago you were as likely to see a red hand of ulster flag or a republic of Ireland one. How fudged up is that.

Yes I'm sure there are plenty who use the England flag for sinister purposes, but do you not think that some of it could be do with things like the success of the lionesses, or the England women's rugby team (10s of thousands attend those games) and even in the men's England team and their very good runs under Southgate?
It's up to the normal decent people to say this is our flag, we are proud of it, yes we acknowledge that in the past not all the actions carried out under it were honourable but this is a different time and we are different people, we will not allow the actions of a minority to sully it or define us.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I’m nearly 50, I don’t think I saw a flown St George’s Cross for the first 30 years of my life, always Union Flags instead.

England Football and cricket fans would have Union flags in the 80’s 90’s in my mind (I may be misremembering).

Something changed at some point with Football, but the wider shift strongly suggests something sinister to me, even more so since Brexit, and it’s ratcheted up again in recent months.

I remember the England flag first really appearing around the time of Euro 96. Italia 90 was definitely still majority union flags for England. Towards the late 90s England kits started becoming more white and red only, i.e. consciously losing the blue shorts and socks, to try and definitely say England, not just aka Britain.

I think there was actually some sense around Euro 96 that the English flag was 'cleaner' than the union flag, which had bad BNP connotations at the time. That's obviously not lasted.

 

[Baleforce]

It's similar here in regards to the saltire. Twenty years ago you were as likely to see a red hand of ulster flag or a republic of Ireland one. How fudged up is that.

Yes I'm sure there are plenty who use the England flag for sinister purposes, but do you not think that some of it could be do with things like the success of the lionesses, or the England women's rugby team (10s of thousands attend those games) and even in the men's England team and their very good runs under Southgate?
It's up to the normal decent people to say this is our flag, we are proud of it, yes we acknowledge that in the past not all the actions carried out under it were honourable but this is a different time and we are different people, we will not allow the actions of a minority to sully it or define us.

I'm sure some of it is.

But I live about 10 miles away from the Bell hotel in Epping, they have all gone up, and the roundabouts and zebra crossings painted, in the last week, not during the weeks when the tournaments were running.

It's not the flag that's the issue*, it's the politics that have led someone to display it in that manner that bothers me.

*Although when I (bolded and italicised) see it, I do think EDL before I think England.

 

[glasgowspur]

I'm sure some of it is.

But I live about 10 miles away from the Bell hotel in Epping, they have all gone up, and the roundabouts and zebra crossings painted, in the last week, not during the weeks when the tournaments were running.

It's not the flag that's the issue*, it's the politics that have led someone to display it in that manner that bothers me.

*Although when I (bolded and italicised) see it, I do think EDL before I think England.

That's fair, there's obvious evidence to support your view in those situations.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

I remember the England flag first really appearing around the time of Euro 96. Italia 90 was definitely still majority union flags for England. Towards the late 90s England kits started becoming more white and red only, i.e. consciously losing the blue shorts and socks, to try and definitely say England, not just aka Britain.

I think there was actually some sense around Euro 96 that the English flag was 'cleaner' than the union flag, which had bad BNP connotations at the time. That's obviously not lasted.

Yeah the far right in this country have generally always gone with a "British" identity rather than an English identity. The EDL was a short-lived exception.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

In other news, it looks like the second French government formed since the election is on the verge of collapse, as Macron's lot try and get an austerity budget through to tackle their huge national debt ...which is opposed by both the far left and far right....

 

[LutonSpurs]

you are being evasive again. Nevermind.

I really am not. You decided 1500 years was where history stsrted in this country and discounted that there were pagans here before that. The same way you discount that we live in a largely non religious soicety now hence we are, in reality, not a Christian country and are not required to be one. Such are our freedoms. That doesn't discount from the good values that come from church and other faith institutions. But I believe society is what it is in spite of faith.

 

[Gutter Boy]

In other news, it looks like the second French government formed since the election is on the verge of collapse, as Macron's lot try and get an austerity budget through to tackle their huge national debt ...which is opposed by both the far left and far right....

I wouldn't really describe basic socialists as far left. France has been battling between Macron's economic extreme neo-libs and Le Pen's far right. Their left hasn't had a look in since Hollande. Hopefully Melenchon will get in a PM as a result of this, then step up to president in 2027. They've being going down a bad path for too long, a bit like we did in those 12 years with Osborne, May Johnson, Truss etc.