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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 77 45.3%

  • Out

    Votes: 93 54.7%
  • Total voters
    170
With regard to Kane, and I fully admit I'm biased because I love the guy, he has shown again and again that he only needs one moment of quality to produce a goal. He showed it again tonight for England. That's why managers play him if he is fit and I am willing to lay good money on any manager playing him in that final for that reason. No one would have left him on the bench.

On the final itself, we were poor. Probably knackered but also facing a top team, who although didn't really get out of first gear, would have likely had extra in the tank had we scored.

It's is worth also remembering that Klopp and Pep lost their first CL finals with their English teams but then went on to win their second. Of course Poch never got that chance.
 
I could never make my mind up whether Kane should or shouldn't have played that final. Never will.

I think sometimes you are better off starting a returning player in that game situation. It was 2019 and there was no competitive game until late August. If he breaks down after 10 mins then you replace him. If he's your last sub and he breaks down after 10 mins then you're playing with 10 men. As it was, it was like playing with 10 men anyway.

The other side of me says that Kane was so desperate to play that he wasn't honest with himself or his coaches about his readiness. He definitely didn't look like he should be on that pitch.

Whether Kane is fit or not, we were massive underdogs either way. There is really no point doing the shoulda, woulda, coulda thing. We weren't better than City or Ajax either, but the football gods shone on us in spring 2019. They clearly didn't help Poch in the other key moments that he deserved some luck prior to that season.
 
I had absolutely no issue with Kane playing and still don’t. I haven’t watched the game back but I don’t recall him being particularly worse than any of our other attacking players in the final. From memory, neither team created a lot so it’s very difficult for centre forwards to shine in that sort of game.

Poch had to play him in my view. Dropping Moura was a ballsy decision given the semi final but I hear people saying “Moura should have started because…” The truth is, Moura was a million miles from prolific for us. I’d pick a half fit Kane over him every time.

Sometimes you lose games and it’s not the manager’s fault. There wasn’t always another way that would have guaranteed a win. Poch had his faults in that last year but I wouldn’t blame him for the selection in that final one bit.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
They're not geniuses (well, maybe they are who am I to judge?). It's just plain logic. One mitigating factor, though, is that if he had kept Kane on the bench and we had still lost the game - which was a very likely outcome considering Liverpool were the better team -, the backlash would have been unimaginable.

Not only would there be people, years and years later, saying he cost us the game by keeping our talismanic striker on the bench, but he would have gone down in history as the man who prevented arguably the best striker in our history to play in the most important game in the club's history.

After spending three months on the shelf, there was no way Kane could win the match on his own and that's what we needed on the night. Heart says 'play him', head says 'play a fit player instead' but head also says 'hum... what's going to happen if you don't play him? Let me think... Ok, let's play him!'
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I don't think anyone thought Kane would win the game on his own but, if we created one or two chances there's only one person you'd want that chance to fall to...and that's not debatable. Even with 3 months off the pitch.

Plus it's not like the choice was a binary he plays or doesn't play....even if he started as sub he would have come on at some stage.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I don't think anyone thought Kane would win the game on his own but, if we created one or two chances there's only one person you'd want that chance to fall to...and that's not debatable. Even with 3 months off the pitch.

Plus it's not like the choice was a binary he plays or doesn't play....even if he started as sub he would have come on at some stage.
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Our biggest mistake for that final was the prep and it showed pochs lack of experience
Whilst pool did warm weather training in Portugal, we stayed in England
It was horrendously hot on that day. 39 degrees as we walked to the stadium from the train station
I believe it’s also one of the reasons the football was so turgid. Pool learned their previous seasons failing. We didn’t have a start point to learn from
 
I didn't even remember if Kane started or not. I've never seen the highlights from the final, not sure I'm ready yet even now. Most painful night I've ever experienced watching Spurs.

If your top scorer and talisman can play in a huge final, of course you play him. Can you imagine if he didn't?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Our biggest mistake for that final was the prep and it showed pochs lack of experience
Whilst pool did warm weather training in Portugal, we stayed in England
It was horrendously hot on that day. 39 degrees as we walked to the stadium from the train station
I believe it’s also one of the reasons the football was so turgid. Pool learned their previous seasons failing. We didn’t have a start point to learn from
Click to expand...

Yep, it was disappointing from Poch.

Imagine taking Ange's full press intense system and trying to do it in those high humidity temperatures. Poch's system wasn't at those levels and we had better ball retainers, but to your point you could tell we were under-prepared.

We used to see this over and over in World Cups with England in hot countries.
 
Gazza said:
It was simple had we kept mouse Dembele for one game …
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His legs (or hip, or whatever) had gone. He was struggling to get through 20 minutes that autumn.

Remember he also left us to play with some malnourished chinese students. He never played competitively again (he retired internationally the same time he left us).
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Our biggest mistake for that final was the prep and it showed pochs lack of experience
Whilst pool did warm weather training in Portugal, we stayed in England
It was horrendously hot on that day. 39 degrees as we walked to the stadium from the train station
I believe it’s also one of the reasons the football was so turgid. Pool learned their previous seasons failing. We didn’t have a start point to learn from
Click to expand...
Wasn't there something stupid like 3 weeks after the end of the PL season and the CL final?
 
Daisuk said:
I didn't even remember if Kane started or not. I've never seen the highlights from the final, not sure I'm ready yet even now. Most painful night I've ever experienced watching Spurs.

If your top scorer and talisman can play in a huge final, of course you play him. Can you imagine if he didn't?
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He was injured.
 
RigorMortis said:
I think it’s a tough one, he was definately much chirpier when things were going well and then increasingly became more defensive and at times quite unlikeable as the performances have worsened.

There is a degree of his nationality playing a part in this, I think it’s more because the general view is that Australia isn’t a football country so how can he be any good rather than actual xenophobia but it would be silly to not acknowledge it’s not there ( maybe not in the mainstream media as much because there would be uproar)

Is Ange aware of it and does it then come across as a chip on the shoulder, I think so.

For me as much as I don’t rate him as a coach and think he has been a disaster, I do acknowledge that he did his best and ultimately just wasn’t good enough. That’s why even for him, it might be the best thing for him to go
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its compounding a few factors - being australian doesn't expose him sufficiently to the high levels of football, however, his own track record only covers him for 2nd tier league at best. especially his poor record in europe with celtics and a horror injury situation that mirrors what has happened twice in two seasons wiht us.

Add to that pulling in more australians (jedinek and montgomery) instead of stealing top talents from other clubs - it sure didn't help him look like a progressive coach with high standards or global reach either.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Our biggest mistake for that final was the prep and it showed pochs lack of experience
Whilst pool did warm weather training in Portugal, we stayed in England
It was horrendously hot on that day. 39 degrees as we walked to the stadium from the train station
I believe it’s also one of the reasons the football was so turgid. Pool learned their previous seasons failing. We didn’t have a start point to learn from
Click to expand...

Add to that Liverpool p[laying a behind closed doors friendly due to there being nesrly 3 weeks between the final game of the season and the final. Yes. It was scorching. One of the things that early bad pen did was give Liverpool the chance to 'sit off' a bit and allow us to burn ourselves through in that heat...


...I've watched that entire match back four times since I was there. I am more convinced than ever that had Poch left Dele on, taken off Trippier instead, and allowed the Llorente/Dele/Moura + Kane element to have 15 mins, we'd have scored. Easy to say now of course LOL (#stillnotoverit)
 
thfcsteff said:
Add to that Liverpool p[laying a behind closed doors friendly due to there being nesrly 3 weeks between the final game of the season and the final. Yes. It was scorching. One of the things that early bad pen did was give Liverpool the chance to 'sit off' a bit and allow us to burn ourselves through in that heat...


...I've watched that entire match back four times since I was there. I am more convinced than ever that had Poch left Dele on, taken off Trippier instead, and allowed the Llorente/Dele/Moura + Kane element to have 15 mins, we'd have scored. Easy to say now of course LOL (#stillnotoverit)
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it was a very poor contest and i agree we had every chance to win it especially with the kane element. the heat got to the pool players as time went on too. it was a curse-level incident - mane (my favourite pool player) to sissoko for the handball. equally infuriating was fifa coming out and justifying that decision by saying something that "the natural position/silhouette is for hand to be by the side and not enlarge it" - i mean do these guys play any sports that require sudden movements at all?
 
metalgear said:
it was a very poor contest and i agree we had every chance to win it especially with the kane element. the heat got to the pool players as time went on too. it was a curse-level incident - mane (my favourite pool player) to sissoko for the handball. equally infuriating was fifa coming out and justifying that decision by saying something that "the natural position/silhouette is for hand to be by the side and not enlarge it" - i mean do these guys play any sports that require sudden movements at all?
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I think the fact it hit his side/armpit first was the killer. They redefined handball after it.
 
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