Paedophilia and child abuse - time to discuss the issue

[glorygloryeze]

I think we need to discuss what may turn out to be the big known scourge of our time: paedophilia and sexual predation on children, especially those very young.

The very recently highlighted issue around sexual abuse of young hopeful footballers for me reminded me how long this type of 'thing' has been going on for. The scariest rumours have related to paedophile rings that involve people in very high positions of power such as MPs, judges, military etc and we know about how stalled the inquiry into the ALLEGED 'Westminster/people in high places' paedophile ring in the UK has been...

I have to say i honestly think people's reaction to child abuse through paedophilia would cause civil unrest much much worse than any of the riots in the 80s of those in 2011 and that is why only MPs who have already died or are suffering from dementia/alzheimers have been convicted. But time will tell.

So i thought i'd start a thread to discuss paedophilia as a whole;
How does such a sexual 'craving' even happen?
How much can be attributed to a paedophile themselves being somebody who was sexually abused as a child?
Can paedophilia be a mental reaction to a moment or period in time in someone's childhood that they cannot 'move on' from?

Time to discuss, warts and all.
Testimonies from anyone who works in child protection or the criminal justice system that deals with such cases would be very welcome too.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Is it of our time? Or is it of the 1970s (aside from Rotherham, which is like the 1970s)? In term of that scale of legitimacy anyway

With modern day levels of awareness and the long-term erosion of default respect for figures of authority (in the church, the care system, entertainment industry, schools, participation leisure), I think its just old skeletons coming out

But obviously its been an issue since Ancient Greece. Personally I think it's a preference that is inbuilt in a 0.01% of the population and is unavoidable, just as hetro and homo sexuality are. It would be nice if there was a more civilised treatment/support system for those who voluntarily admitted to having that preference but who morally wish to avoid enacting it. Obviously not chemical castration a la Alan Turing - something much more humane. But enacting it should obviously face the full consequences of the law the same as any non-consential act.

Age of consent is I suppose an interesting angle. 16 in the UK, 14 in much of Europe, 18 in the US. So even Western society doesn't have a consensus on that

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I feel a great deal of sympathy for people who have been molested. I have mentioned on here in the past how my wife works on a consultancy basis for the prison service and it is quite staggering the amount of prisoners who have been abused.

In todays society everything seems to be about the overall cost amount, well if we sat down and saw how much abuse of the young cost society as a whole I think it would far out weigh any other savings the country could make.

Please do not take that last comment as though that is what I think is most important because it is not, the human price is far more important, but through my wifes work I see how it effects people's lives for the rest of their lifes and how some never really get over it and the problems it causes.

I have always had an extremely belligerent attitude to authority, contemptible you could say, this comes through with my political beliefs. I have a deep rooted belief that as my father always said "trust no bugger in a position of power" and it seems to me that most I have meet in my life that have craved positions of power or influence have been in some way dodgy.

Therefor I believe the best way to root out the problems of exploitation is to do far more serious and rigorous background checks on people who wish to obtain any position of influence in society, checks similar to those that MI5 and MI6 would do before recruiting staff. The has been an improvement and I know as I have been CRB checked by my sons tennis club when I drive other young players to tournaments that clubs and organisations take this more seriously these days.

 

[Lemonade Money]

It appears people knew what Saville was up to, and he got a knighthood.

 

[glorygloryeze]

It appears people knew what Saville was up to, and he got a knighthood.

Well he was also a high-class pimp, allegedly..services for the country and all that...

 

[Lemonade Money]

Well he was also a high-class pimp, allegedly..services for the country and all that...

Christ, what was he pimping?!

 

[glorygloryeze]

Christ, what was he pimping?!

 

[7percent]

Is it of our time? Or is it of the 1970s (aside from Rotherham, which is like the 1970s)? In term of that scale of legitimacy anyway

With modern day levels of awareness and the long-term erosion of default respect for figures of authority (in the church, the care system, entertainment industry, schools, participation leisure), I think its just old skeletons coming out

I feel paedophilia has probably just changed. With the technology available today you don't neccasarily need to work/be in a position of trust with kids to access them, especially if you're willing to lie about who you are online.

But obviously its been an issue since Ancient Greece. Personally I think it's a preference that is inbuilt in a 0.01% of the population and is unavoidable, just as hetro and homo sexuality are.

I think it's in far more than 0.1% of the population. If it was just 0.1% of the population the police wouldn't be fighting a losing battle with online child abuse in particular. I feel the percentage of people sexually attracted to kids is far higher, partly because of a documentary I once watched where the police said there are thousands and thousands of people online in groups and message boards preying on young people.

It would be nice if there was a more civilised treatment/support system for those who voluntarily admitted to having that preference but who morally wish to avoid enacting it. Obviously not chemical castration a la Alan Turing - something much more humane. But enacting it should obviously face the full consequences of the law the same as any non-consential act.

I saw on a documentary (maybe the same one I mentioned before) a man of about 50 being caught at a train station by police who were waiting for him because he'd been texting or believed he was texting a young girl. He had a wife, a house, a job, adult children and he'd risked it all to go and meet some ~15 year old for sex. I just can't understand why someone would want to risk everything for a fumble with anybody, let alone a child.

Age of consent is I suppose an interesting angle. 16 in the UK, 14 in much of Europe, 18 in the US. So even Western society doesn't have a consensus on that

I'd have it by law that two consenting people of within ~2 years of age of each other should be allowed to have sexual interactions. i.e. a 17 year old boy could sleep with his 15 year old girlfriend without breaking the law and having to sign on to a register. That would mean me, for example, a 32 year old would be breaking the law if I slept with a 16 year old. Have the age of consent at 18 except for this 2 year gap rule? Haven't really thought it through, pick holes in it if you will.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I think it's an unsolvable problem. I consider myself a liberal, compassionate person and don't believe capital punishment is the answer to many crimes, but if somebody abused my children or grandchildren I would want to torture them to death.

 

[scaramanga]

I feel paedophilia has probably just changed. With the technology available today you don't neccasarily need to work/be in a position of trust with kids to access them, especially if you're willing to lie about who you are online.



I think it's in far more than 0.1% of the population. If it was just 0.1% of the population the police wouldn't be fighting a losing battle with online child abuse in particular. I feel the percentage of people sexually attracted to kids is far higher, partly because of a documentary I once watched where the police said there are thousands and thousands of people online in groups and message boards preying on young people.



I saw on a documentary (maybe the same one I mentioned before) a man of about 50 being caught at a train station by police who were waiting for him because he'd been texting or believed he was texting a young girl. He had a wife, a house, a job, adult children and he'd risked it all to go and meet some ~15 year old for sex. I just can't understand why someone would want to risk everything for a fumble with anybody, let alone a child.



I'd have it by law that two consenting people of within ~2 years of age of each other should be allowed to have sexual interactions. i.e. a 17 year old boy could sleep with his 15 year old girlfriend without breaking the law and having to sign on to a register. That would mean me, for example, a 32 year old would be breaking the law if I slept with a 16 year old. Have the age of consent at 18 except for this 2 year gap rule? Haven't really thought it through, pick holes in it if you will.

I think France has a similar rule and it makes sense.

There's also a larger threshold for people in positions of authority over kids like teachers.

 

[Rorschach]

Irrespective of a persons predilection everyone is in control of their own mind and body. There is no mitigating circumstances ever in these cases. I frankly don't care why they do what they do. The punishment should be a harshest that country has. Solitary confinement for their natural life. An eternity to dwell on their own sick deeds. Chemical castration if possible.
I don't agree with the death penalty but if it was of my own kids I'm sure I would feel differently.

 

[scaramanga]

I think it's an unsolvable problem. I consider myself a liberal, compassionate person and don't believe capital punishment is the answer to many crimes, but if somebody abused my children or grandchildren I would want to torture them to death.

Irrespective of a persons predilection everyone is in control of their own mind and body. There is no mitigating circumstances ever in these cases. I frankly don't care why they do what they do. The punishment should be a harshest that country has. Solitary confinement for their natural life. An eternity to dwell on their own sick deeds. Chemical castration if possible.
I don't agree with the death penalty but if it was of my own kids I'm sure I would feel differently.

How do you both as socially liberal people deal with the thought crime side of it? Should it be illegal just to be an "inactive" paedophile? What if he or she gets off on watching your kid in the park but doesn't act on it?

I find it a very difficult problem to answer. Obviously punishing thought crimes is incredibly wrong, but removing that person from the vicinity of children is also a preferable solution. I don't believe that the psychiatric answer works either. I have a preference for slim brunettes with big tits - if someone made that illegal tomorrow, I couldn't stop liking that. I'd like to think I have the self control not to act on it, but my preferences couldn't change.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Just read an article about a girl who was abused by her dad from age 2-9. She was abused 15-30 times every month. Guy gets sentenced to 15 months in prison, was released after 8.

In Norway there has been media focus on paedophila these last weeks after a paedo-ring was exposed involving at least 50 men. All sorts of men, from 20-60+ years old, good jobs, families, higher education. One guy was even planning molesting his unborn child as his partner was pregnant at the time.

Our children are the most innocent things in this world. If you can't help yourself from sexually abusing one or don't understand how wrong it is, you're beyond repair and need to be locked up forever and have no business living alongside our children.

 

[scaramanga]

Just read an article about a girl who was abused by her dad from age 2-9. She was abused 15-30 times every month. Guy gets sentenced to 15 months in prison, was released after 8.

In Norway there has been media focus on paedophila these last weeks after a paedo-ring was exposed involving at least 50 men. All sorts of men, from 20-60+ years old, good jobs, families, higher education. One guy was even planning molesting his unborn child as his partner was pregnant at the time.

Our children are the most innocent things in this world. If you can't help yourself from sexually abusing one or don't understand how wrong it is, you're beyond repair and need to be locked up forever and have no business living alongside our children.

What about those who can understand and can help themselves but still want to?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

What perplexed me was the climate of acceptance from the media regarding this issue back in the 70's and 80's. Bill Wyman made not attempt to hide his relationship with Mandy Smith and what was she...14? The media just went along with it. I remember even back then being astounded by it all. There seemed to be a real correlation between celebrity and sexual entitlement when it came to children.

 

[Rock Strongo]

What about those who can understand and can help themselves but still want to?

Then you die silently a closet paedo who never harmed anyone?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Then you die silently a closet paedo who never harmed anyone?

But society should have a responsibility to support them, rather than stigmatise them. That aspect IMO is brain programming, rather than a developed behaviour. We need to do better than the treatment of homosexuals by the Victorians and Edwardians. Although being clear there is a firm line between preference and any form of enactment of it.

Perhaps VR might be one solution? A sort of methadone-type approach?

 

[scaramanga]

Then you die silently a closet paedo who never harmed anyone?

I think that's the option I'm leaning towards, but I think a lot of people would not want that to be the case.

 

[braineclipse]

Is it of our time? Or is it of the 1970s (aside from Rotherham, which is like the 1970s)? In term of that scale of legitimacy anyway

With modern day levels of awareness and the long-term erosion of default respect for figures of authority (in the church, the care system, entertainment industry, schools, participation leisure), I think its just old skeletons coming out

But obviously its been an issue since Ancient Greece. Personally I think it's a preference that is inbuilt in a 0.01% of the population and is unavoidable, just as hetro and homo sexuality are. It would be nice if there was a more civilised treatment/support system for those who voluntarily admitted to having that preference but who morally wish to avoid enacting it. Obviously not chemical castration a la Alan Turing - something much more humane. But enacting it should obviously face the full consequences of the law the same as any non-consential act.

Age of consent is I suppose an interesting angle. 16 in the UK, 14 in much of Europe, 18 in the US. So even Western society doesn't have a consensus on that

I agree with all of that apart from the "unavoidable, just as hetro and homo sexuality are". Perhaps you meant it differently than I read it, but that sounds very questionable.

I feel paedophilia has probably just changed. With the technology available today you don't neccasarily need to work/be in a position of trust with kids to access them, especially if you're willing to lie about who you are online.



I think it's in far more than 0.1% of the population. If it was just 0.1% of the population the police wouldn't be fighting a losing battle with online child abuse in particular. I feel the percentage of people sexually attracted to kids is far higher, partly because of a documentary I once watched where the police said there are thousands and thousands of people online in groups and message boards preying on young people.



I saw on a documentary (maybe the same one I mentioned before) a man of about 50 being caught at a train station by police who were waiting for him because he'd been texting or believed he was texting a young girl. He had a wife, a house, a job, adult children and he'd risked it all to go and meet some ~15 year old for sex. I just can't understand why someone would want to risk everything for a fumble with anybody, let alone a child.



I'd have it by law that two consenting people of within ~2 years of age of each other should be allowed to have sexual interactions. i.e. a 17 year old boy could sleep with his 15 year old girlfriend without breaking the law and having to sign on to a register. That would mean me, for example, a 32 year old would be breaking the law if I slept with a 16 year old. Have the age of consent at 18 except for this 2 year gap rule? Haven't really thought it through, pick holes in it if you will.

0.1% of the 63 million UK population is still a large number of people. Tens of thousands of adults meaning it's plenty of people to populate online message boards and give the police plenty to worry about.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I agree with all of that apart from the "unavoidable, just as hetro and homo sexuality are". Perhaps you meant it differently than I read it, but that sounds very questionable.

I don't think sexual preference is ever a choice. I don't think paedophiles can choose differently to having that preference - it's just how their brain is wired. But they must choose to obey society's moral position that enacting it is absolutely unacceptable.