Chelsea has set a precedent. If they did then city could sue for double standards. They might lose because chelsea "cooperated". But that's not foregone.
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Naughty Emirates Marketing Project - Spot of Compo??
- Thread starter Clarky
- Start date
Chelsea has set a precedent. If they did then city could sue for double standards. They might lose because chelsea "cooperated". But that's not foregone.
Isn't it different with Chelsea because it was the new owners 'self reporting' issues from before they took over?
Leicester didn't. It's based on previous seasons earnings and city wouldn't have been in the championship the season prior. So as leicester did they can say previous seasons earnings don't count at all.
That's why i put "cooperated" in.
They had to report it. Their books were open to every bidder and the government. They couldn't hide it.
They got away with it though with a minor fine from the prem and uefa.
Yes but the the key point here is that 'they' inherited the problems of the previous regime whereas with City the current owners are the ones culpable - so it's apples and oranges
Which shouldn't matter at all. It is the same company.
They looked at the books before buying and knew the problems they would face. That effects the value of the business you are buying. Not that businesses responsibility.
You get a lesser sentence for pleading guilty than trying to plead innocent.
Kandi1977
Ralph Coates
How many teams were professional at that time vs now? It's a totally different ball game. Literally.
glasgowspur
Jimmy Cantrell
Argument could actually be made that those titles are worth more because it was a much more level playing field.
No doping, financial or medical, the better team won, not the cheats.
Muttley
Vedran Corluka
Financial Information: 54 charges (2009–10 to 2017–18) regarding inaccurate financial data on revenue, sponsorships, and operating costs.
Failure to Cooperate: 35 charges (December 2018 to February 2023) for not assisting the Premier League's investigation.
Player & Manager Remuneration: 14 charges (2009–10 to 2015–16) concerning undisclosed details in contracts.
Profitability & Sustainability (PSR): 7 charges (2015–16 to 2017–18) for breaching domestic sustainability rules.
UEFA Regulations: 5 charges (2013–14 to 2017–18) for failing to comply with UEFA's financial fair play rules
I've always been a bit of a cynic about FFP / PSR to be fair. When I distance myself from any football biases, I've watched a set of rich owners come in and grow Emirates Marketing Project by attaining success and entertainment on the pitch. The ultimate test is what would happen to the club if the owners pulled out. Can the club "sustain" themselves? That's perhaps the flaw in PSR as it is not really measuring that. In Saudi Sportswashing Machine's case, PSR is constraining their club. Obviously, there are other more moral issues with them. In City's case, they would have to downsize but they would survive.
For me the serious issues relate to 1 above. Having worked for a company that went through an SSC investigation and lived to fight another day, I have total respect for general accounting practices. If you breach them then you deserve the punishment which can even be prison sentences. Forget points deduction and relegation. It is much more serious. Perhaps the Home Office should cancel their license to trade in the UK if they don't offer up director level employees with fiduciary responsibilities to serve the punishment. Think Paratici here.
I'm not sure I'm as bothered about 4 and 5 as some with the very big clubs.
With 5, I guess it is all about whether you're into the belief that FIFA and UEFA even have these decision rights. Who gave them that empowerment in the first place. Look closely, and they just took it. Personally, if City get fined then I wouldn't let a single penny leave these shores. It should get recycled into English football and be led by our own FA.
Failure to Cooperate: 35 charges (December 2018 to February 2023) for not assisting the Premier League's investigation.
Player & Manager Remuneration: 14 charges (2009–10 to 2015–16) concerning undisclosed details in contracts.
Profitability & Sustainability (PSR): 7 charges (2015–16 to 2017–18) for breaching domestic sustainability rules.
UEFA Regulations: 5 charges (2013–14 to 2017–18) for failing to comply with UEFA's financial fair play rules
I've always been a bit of a cynic about FFP / PSR to be fair. When I distance myself from any football biases, I've watched a set of rich owners come in and grow Emirates Marketing Project by attaining success and entertainment on the pitch. The ultimate test is what would happen to the club if the owners pulled out. Can the club "sustain" themselves? That's perhaps the flaw in PSR as it is not really measuring that. In Saudi Sportswashing Machine's case, PSR is constraining their club. Obviously, there are other more moral issues with them. In City's case, they would have to downsize but they would survive.
For me the serious issues relate to 1 above. Having worked for a company that went through an SSC investigation and lived to fight another day, I have total respect for general accounting practices. If you breach them then you deserve the punishment which can even be prison sentences. Forget points deduction and relegation. It is much more serious. Perhaps the Home Office should cancel their license to trade in the UK if they don't offer up director level employees with fiduciary responsibilities to serve the punishment. Think Paratici here.
I'm not sure I'm as bothered about 4 and 5 as some with the very big clubs.
With 5, I guess it is all about whether you're into the belief that FIFA and UEFA even have these decision rights. Who gave them that empowerment in the first place. Look closely, and they just took it. Personally, if City get fined then I wouldn't let a single penny leave these shores. It should get recycled into English football and be led by our own FA.
Mikey10
Ian Walker
It’s Tottenham. We’d have found a way to lose to Accrington Stanley in finals if they’d been there instead of City.
stratnumberone
Peter Taylor
Already getting thoroughly tired of city fans saying things like “whatever happens I bleed city, we’ve been down in the weeds and I was there. No one can take these wins away from me and away from us, however hard they try” etc etc etc ad nauseum. They totally miss the irony that plenty of other clubs have been down in the weeds and that their cheating has stolen those very moments from millions of others.
I will be intrigued to see how this pans out. Sadly I don’t expect titles to be stripped (although in a sane world they’d be taken away and no awarded to anyone else). Could this be the end of the Premier League as THE powerhouse in world football? Let’s face it, the League has absolutely zero credibility now.
In some ways I’d be ok with that as I fail to see what the PL being a powerhouse has done to benefit anyone except the minority (who primarily cheated anyway): England have still won rooster all and Spurs have won rooster all. I’d rather go back to the 1980s when it was a relatively level playing field and most sides had a chance to win a title or a cup.
I will be intrigued to see how this pans out. Sadly I don’t expect titles to be stripped (although in a sane world they’d be taken away and no awarded to anyone else). Could this be the end of the Premier League as THE powerhouse in world football? Let’s face it, the League has absolutely zero credibility now.
In some ways I’d be ok with that as I fail to see what the PL being a powerhouse has done to benefit anyone except the minority (who primarily cheated anyway): England have still won rooster all and Spurs have won rooster all. I’d rather go back to the 1980s when it was a relatively level playing field and most sides had a chance to win a title or a cup.
Lost Mango
Alan Hutton
Apparently (expert on BBC ....) because EPL is a separate league to the EFL then relegation (beyond a pounts deduction) isn't viable.
So it would either be a points deduction leading to a one year championship jolly where their fans can feel like martyrs or total expulsion from the pyramid.
So it would either be a points deduction leading to a one year championship jolly where their fans can feel like martyrs or total expulsion from the pyramid.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Andy Thompson
I agree totally with the last paragraph. Football in this country has changed from being a local business to multinational organisation and we are not fans we are consumers.
Our main leagues are full of average overseas players and local youngsters rarely get to be first team regulars which limits our national teams choices.
The culture has changed, I feel far more hatred in stadiums than I did in the days of the "football hooligans".
When I stopped going to games I thought I would miss it but I have not, I only watch our games and England on TV and even forgot they were playing last night as missus was watching "Strictly"
I never believed I would ever feel this way about a game I'd loved since the late 50's.
MartyFunkhouser
Teddy Sheringham
Yeh someone on Sky said the same, huge 60-80 points deduction so they would have to take them within a year after relegation
Muttley
Vedran Corluka
This is massive when you think about it.
If this stance is taken then it undermines the FA and even the government. When the PL and broadcasting companies were going rogue in COVID times the government and FA soon set them straight. Perhaps the government's independent regulator working with the FA will make sure relegation is a possibility.
Then you have the scenario where the PL ejects City from the league and they have no home to go to if the EFL won't accept them either. That would be a fun scenario.
johnaliola
Edgar Davids
Lots of good points Muttley.
FFP/PSR should lead to good stewardship and that would be transferable between owners. As you point out here, bad ownership breaching these rules puts the club in jeopardy because when owners lost interest in the club after cooling the books, and they may do so here, nobody else can come in and run it on the same footing.
And worse, fines and straitjackets (such as transfer embargoes) will further penalise that club to the extent that they are wholly unviable.
So it is a paradox but the penal aspect starts to impair sustainability.
So thinking on a bit, perhaps the solution lies in creatively designing an appropriate penalty.
To my mind with its flaws the Premier League could demand (if rhey have such a power) the Club is sold and that potentially is the fairest and harshest penalty that could be inflicted.
This will burst the balloon of their accounts
It serves as a demonstration of power from the authorities to encourage clubs owners to stick to the rules
Specified Fines could be paid by the new owners as part of the overall sale price
It doesn’t punish players and fans unduly
Baleforce
Joe Kinnear
There are hundreds of leagues they can apply to join.
The pyramid is huge and they can afford to travel.
Muttley
Vedran Corluka
Can their fans afford to watch them away though? It's not as if the UK police and the local councils would support football size events in Manchester if they're on a ban. You can't just hold a party with 50k people without following the protocols.
Miami is probably nice this time of year.
They absolutely should be deeming these breaches of the rules as a failure of fit and proper ownership and that City can not register with the league, moving forwards, with the current owners in place.
MartyFunkhouser
Teddy Sheringham
A point I think many alluded to last Jan when it was touted that Qatari's were going to buy us and people argued that it wasn't the way to go. This stuff always had the potential to blow up like this and as you say, cheating shows a failure of fit and proper