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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Glenda's Legs said:
Do you honestly believe that the Reform/Restore type voters actually want immigrants to integrate? It’s an easy cover argument but if these immigrants were to move into their areas they would be up in arms.
And in any case it totally ignores that many immigrants are integrated in terms of where they work. They just live in areas with others of their nationality.
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And many do integrate into society and British way, in fairness.

This is the flip of this topic too, people are quick to highlight the negatives (when I say people I mean the wider world, not people on here) There are so many great stories out there about social integration that are not celebrated or even see the light of day. Even if they were it would be classed as propaganda or forced down peoples necks, so you wouldn't win either way
 
johnaliola said:
Sorry who told you you can’t have online banking as an attorney lol? You can just access your mums accounts with your own credentials. I do.
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I don’t want to name the bank, but they’ve told us many times we can’t have access to online banking. I have to write a letter for for my sister or vice versa authorising payments if one of us are unable to attend the bank.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t want to name the bank, but they’ve told us many times we can’t have access to online banking. I have to write a letter for for my sister or vice versa authorising payments if one of us are unable to attend the bank.
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Maybe a silly question, but do you not have your parents credentials? Thats what I used and was legally covered by the LPA
 
The world was fine when we masked for a bit. The burqa (which I find horrid) impacts next to nobody. It's a fetishished hate for me.

Halal food in schools enables kids to have a balanced diet without compromising their fmaily religion. I ask for Halal when I go on work stuff and they accommodate me. I hope you don't want that that to stop.

And integration is 2 way. My street is pretty well to do. I was an early brown person who moved there. The white people who live here are slowly moving to villages. Not all of them. Just some. The same ones who would never say hello to us.
 
LutonSpurs said:
The world was fine when we masked for a bit. The burqa (which I find horrid) impacts next to nobody. It's a fetishished hate for me.

Halal food in schools enables kids to have a balanced diet without compromising their fmaily religion. I ask for Halal when I go on work stuff and they accommodate me. I hope you don't want that that to stop.
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No one cares when they are tinkled off their nut tucking into Halal after Spurs hahahaha

LutonSpurs said:
And integration is 2 way. My street is pretty well to do. I was an early brown person who moved there. The white people who live here are slowly moving to villages. Not all of them. Just some. The same ones who would never say hello to us.
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Not sure if I shared this anecdote before but when I lived in Edmonton with my Turkish Gf we used to make a big deal out of Sunday dinner, in the summers we would have Kervan Sofrasi platters in the garden and have people over, the neighbours either side, one side Sikh, the other Indian used to food swap over the fence come the end, tremendous memories. GHod I miss Kervan
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
No one cares when they are tinkled off their nut tucking into Halal after Spurs hahahaha



Not sure if I shared this anecdote before but when I lived in Edmonton with my Turkish Gf we used to make a big deal out of Sunday dinner, in the summers we would have Kervan Sofrasi platters in the garden and have people over, the neighbours either side, one side Sikh, the other Indian used to food swap over the fence come the end, tremendous memories. GHod I miss Kervan
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We do food swaps all the time. The English families don't. We do send them food on Eid but they just don't do it. Think it's our horrid culture.
 
Jurgen the German said:
And parties like Reform and Restore will continue to win support and make inroads until both the government and the opposition come up with a credible plan to address immigration. Obviously, people like Farage go too far in the other direction, but the general public clearly doesn’t have confidence in either this government or the previous one to deal effectively with immigration—which, admittedly, is a complex issue.
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Jurgen the German said:
I don’t disagree. But I’m not sure people really care what the plan is, or even whether there is one. All they hear is another party making promises that they will “deal with” the situation. They should be held to the same standard as the government and the opposition and be expected to produce a credible, workable immigration plan rather than relying on sound bites.
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Is this you phoning in ? (15mins in)

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MartyFunkhouser said:
Not sure the significance of Vegetarian food, but I understand why Halal might be a problem for some, I am not sure how prevalent it is in Schools, I would have to be shown that to know if its even a valid concern proportionate to the complaints people have. In terms of curriculum, form what my Son says, from the work he does, there is actually less emphasis on religious education than when I was at school, I understand this might change from boroughs and catchments but I don't see much to be worried about there. Being a Jew in a Catholic school in London in the 80s, I can tell you there were major allowances then too and it was never a bad thing.



I don't think this can be perceived as a bad thing whatsoever.



I agree to a point, I also think people over play this "I am not allowed to say what I think" when what they think is clearly just offensive and racist. I agree we should be able to mock religion, I have done it on here and I have not been pulled up on it ever. We had this conversation at length before and the examples provided are a small handful where as a country we have likely got it wrong by being overly sensitive



Again I think this is sensible attitudes to work and culture, I have worked abroad alot in my life and the same curtesy has been extended to me and it made a huge difference. I am not sure what real accommodations can be classed as an issue, the examples given are certainly not as they happen outside religion and race anyway (in the example of dietary). Not sure what religious observations would impact, I have worked with multiple observing faiths and haven't seen any preference or change in work pattern, so I would need real examples of impact to comment fully.



We have recognised religious festivals for years, they can be some of the most fulfilling moments shared IMO. Growing up in Whitechapel and being invited to and sharing in Eid, Diwali, Chinese New Year etc have been incredible, why would we not recognise the wider world outside the UK regardless of if these people are not even here?

  • The question is whether there remains a clear British baseline that applies to everyone.

I would throw this back to you, because its a question I can't answer at any great length and I think people struggle with when asked, but does this look like to you? What is this British baseline, what is British culture where one size fits all? Because in my opinion, even British values/cultures change as you move across the country anyway, regardless of immigration. So what in one paragraph is British Culture and what part of that, in which you think is British Culture do you think we are losing
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It’s a fair question, and I don't think there’s a neat one-paragraph definition of “British culture” that everyone would agree on. It varies enormously depending on where you live.

To answer the question, I’d say it’s the rule of law, freedom of speech and religion, equality before the law, democratic institutions, tolerance of other people’s beliefs. I’d also argue we allow our children to live more independent lives and make their own choices compared to some other cultures.

There are also less tangible things — the importance of being able to disagree, humour and satire, and the idea that religion is largely a private matter rather than something that dictates how everyone else should live. None of those are exclusively British, obviously, but together they form something recognisably British to me.

As for what I think we're losing, I wouldn't say Britain is suddenly abandoning all of that because of immigration. That would be overstating it. My concern is more that, with very large-scale immigration, particularly where people arrive from societies with very different cultural or religious norms, there can be a tendency to accommodate differences indefinitely rather than expecting people to integrate. If I emigrated to America or china or the Middle East, I would try and blend in and abide by their culture, not the other way round.


And I accept that British culture has always changed. I just don't think “it has always changed” necessarily means that every kind of change is desirable, or that we shouldn't have a say in the pace and scale of it.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Do you honestly believe that the Reform/Restore type voters actually want immigrants to integrate? It’s an easy cover argument but if these immigrants were to move into their areas they would be up in arms.
And in any case it totally ignores that many immigrants are integrated in terms of where they work. They just live in areas with others of their nationality.
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I didn’t say all Reform/Restore voters did. I said that I wanted immigrants to integrate. I outlined why I believe people are fed up with Labour and the Tories. What I don’t understand is why more people don’t ask why are so many people voting for Reform and the like? They can’t all be racists. Why aren’t we pointing the finger at Labour and the Tories for failing on immigration?
 
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t want to name the bank, but they’ve told us many times we can’t have access to online banking. I have to write a letter for for my sister or vice versa authorising payments if one of us are unable to attend the bank.
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The ratbags, not helpful is it. I think sometime you need to stretch some rules to help yourselves out as from what no doubt you have both had more than enough to contend with.

The thing i adhere to is to act in my Mums interest with the poa and if from time to time I “forget” to let her use my phone to check her account, and do it myself, well who is to know.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I think they are, just not as millitant

I also think some don't apportion the same level of blame on immigrants for the same ills, such as cost of living and living standards etc
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But the conversation more often than not becomes, “How can people vote for those monsters?”, when I think the more constructive argument is that both Labour and the Conservatives have failed on immigration. I have family members that have openly said they will vote Reform, and they have typically voted for both Labour and Conservative. Immigrants are an easy target for people to blame, and they always have been. Personally, I’d be much more inclined to look at things like corporate greed.

At the same time, I can’t help but look at the sheer number of people attempting to come here, along with stories like the one recently about Spain, and think that the current situation simply isn’t sustainable. Like I’ve said, we want and need immigrants, but it’s difficult to manage tens of thousands of people arriving here over relatively short periods, particularly in a country as small and densely populated as the UK.

I don’t pretend to know what the answer is, and I don’t think there’s a simple one. But surely the objective should be to have an immigration system that is controlled, sustainable and actually works for both the people coming here and those already living here. For a country as small and crowded as the UK, I think that has to mean having sensible limits.
 
Jurgen the German said:
But the conversation more often than not becomes, “How can people vote for those monsters?”, when I think the more constructive argument is that both Labour and the Conservatives have failed on immigration. I have family members that have openly said they will vote Reform, and they have typically voted for both Labour and Conservative. Immigrants are an easy target for people to blame, and they always have been. Personally, I’d be much more inclined to look at things like corporate greed.
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I think that retort comes out when something controversial comes out within reform and restore. I dont think the sheer number of members and councilors that have come out with bigoted views can go without comment, why should they?

I could equally make the argument that those moments of bigotry do supporters no favors, especially when said supporters generally don't condemn and double down with excuses. That's not the labour of Tories fault, nor their supporters. Reform voters have as much responsibility to police things that impacts the narrative around them.
Jurgen the German said:
At the same time, I can’t help but look at the sheer number of people attempting to come here, along with stories like the one recently about Spain, and think that the current situation simply isn’t sustainable. Like I’ve said, we want and need immigrants, but it’s difficult to manage tens of thousands of people arriving here over relatively short periods, particularly in a country as small and densely populated as the UK.
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In fairness what happened in "Spain" wasn't anything to do with immigration, the fact it was peddled that way was in such bad faith that it couldn't be debated.
Jurgen the German said:
I don’t pretend to know what the answer is, and I don’t think there’s a simple one. But surely the objective should be to have an immigration system that is controlled, sustainable and actually works for both the people coming here and those already living here. For a country as small and crowded as the UK, I think that has to mean having sensible limits.
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No one would disagree with that

Ultimately mate we are in danger of going round in circles so I will summarise with this. YES more needs to be expected from Labour and their supporters need to demand more of them in what is to be done on this subject BUT if Reform voters want to be taken more seriously on this, if they want their party to be taken seriously on this then they need to be more honest and police what happens within the party and support base which adds fuel to the "racist" fire, because of lot of it comes from examples taken from within their ranks. People are not making stuff up about Councillors who posted racism online etc, Reform voters would get more respect not making excuses for it and calling it out IMO

Ultimately, if I was as passionate about reform as some are and with as much passion want the "we are not all racists" rhetoric to change, then I think I would embrace the scrutiny that exposes it rather than pretend it doesn't exist like many do.
 
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