Jason Arday

[glasgowspur]

FWIW your graphic is a bit of a 101 'bluffer's guide' to an area of psychiatric medicine which is complex, deep and certainly not 'one size fit all'. The graphic is an iceberg tip at best. The condition requires considerably more understanding. It's actually a fascinating condition, as is the increasing amount of diagnosis. I know there are various reasons put forth for this - I have a (wholly unproven BTW) feeling that the proliferation of electronics, social media and shortened human attention span has added significantly to the load.

With regards to Aday, I really know very little about him. The story you posted does not present him in the best light.

Not to take it hugely off topic or anything, but I find the approaches to people on the spectrum really weird.
The one size fits all is doesn't work at any level of life, and those who are speaking up for or "defending" (sorry, horrible phrase, best I can explain it though) rightly will flag up that you can't place those on the spectrum into nice little pigeon holes.
However, when those on the spectrum are portrayed in the media there's always cries of "oh they wouldn't do that or behave like that".
Well isn't that pigeon holing?
Isn't the fact that they are all individuals with their own quirks and behaviours what you (not you per se steph) trying to tell us.
We're all different, enjoy it, embrace it, stop analysing it.

Sorry for taking it down another route and hopefully my babbling is semi coherent.

 

[thfcsteff]

Well we can. He has shown a clear pattern of behaviour.

I am not sure what you are looking for in this discussion?
You posted the story.
It seems most people (well, I'll speak for myself here) have said they know little about the specifics of the case, that based on the story it is indeed poor form, and that overall there is more info to be ingested for a true overall viewpoint.
I am not sure you fully gauge what autism, and it's wide-range of potential affects/conditions/scenarios, is about TBH? I could be wrong, however all your comments on it suggest a cursory take on the subject.

 

[thfcsteff]

Not to take it hugely off topic or anything, but I find the approaches to people on the spectrum really weird.
The one size fits all is doesn't work at any level of life, and those who are speaking up for or "defending" (sorry, horrible phrase, best I can explain it though) rightly will flag up that you can't place those on the spectrum into nice little pigeon holes.
However, when those on the spectrum are portrayed in the media there's always cries of "oh they wouldn't do that or behave like that".
Well isn't that pigeon holing?
Isn't the fact that they are all individuals with their own quirks and behaviours what you (not you per se steph) trying to tell us.
We're all different, enjoy it, embrace it, stop analysing it.

Sorry for taking it down another route and hopefully my babbling is semi coherent.

100% agree on pigeon holes. Or the subsequent actions and reactions of people on the spectrum. As you said, every person and situation is different. There are shared patterns and traits, absolutely, but there are broad assumptions made in general public perception and media as to how autistic people behave and 'are', which are not intentionally harmful of course, but do add to the clouds of misinformation surrounding the subject.

FWIW, I think a fuller understanding of the various elements and ingredients along the autism spectrum can often lead to massive relief for many who have struggled unnecessarily for years (anxiety, for example, often has relation to HFA). And I agree that we are all different, and that we should celebrate that more.

 

[robp135]

I am not sure what you are looking for in this discussion?
You posted the story.

It’s an interesting story.

It seems most people (well, I'll speak for myself here) have said they know little about the specifics of the case, that based on the story it is indeed poor form, and that overall there is more info to be ingested for a true overall viewpoint.

I think specifics are quite well detailed now to be honest. Certainly to the point where we can make a judgement that he is a pathological liar vs someone that just exaggerated in a few places. Still think Cambridge is the biggest villain here though.

I am not sure you fully gauge what autism, and it's wide-range of potential affects/conditions/scenarios, is about TBH? I could be wrong, however all your comments on it suggest a cursory take on the subject.

Can’t agree with that. Suspect if we discussed Autism further we would have a lot more agreement than disagreeent.

I have several family members who are autistic and their place in the spectrum is wide ranging. Beleive I have mentioned nephew is on the extreme end of the spectrum although I question that.

I actually think I have Autistic traits myself and had I been born earlier I may hage been diagnosed I guess as high functioning. But I am 40 so pre date that being common. Which is another reason to be suspicious of Ardays detailed diagnosis that would have happened in 1988 based on his story.

I said that Arday may have been lying about this as well based on something I had read years ago. You challenged that which made me research further and everything I am reading suggests the type of lies and actions of Arday would be extremly uncommon for someone that’s high functioning autistic and that fits with.

Lying and manipulating people as effectively as Arday did for decades requires social nuance and ability to manage people’s expectations that would be uncommon for anyone that high functioning Autistic. Typically there would be a preference for clear rules, consistency, and straightforward communication. Would also not be the only traits he has shown that are inconsistent with high functioning autism.

Add in the clear pattern of telling lies, it’s completely fair to question whether or not the autism diagnosis is a reality. And I am doing that within a sub forum of a Spurs forum that he will never read nor will anyone with any influence over his life beyond this weeks exposure.

I actually think it’s a compliment to Autistic people. Lying is not a skill that should be celebrated. If anything its noble that they are are often honest to a fault.

 

[thfcsteff]

It’s an interesting story.



I think specifics are quite well detailed now to be honest. Certainly to the point where we can make a judgement that he is a pathological liar vs someone that just exaggerated in a few places. Still think Cambridge is the biggest villain here though.

I am uncomfortable making such a judgement based on how little I know.

Can’t agree with that. Suspect if we discussed Autism further we would have a lot more agreement than disagreeent.

I have several family members who are autistic and their place in the spectrum is wide ranging. Beleive I have mentioned nephew is on the extreme end of the spectrum although I question that.

I actually think I have Autistic traits myself and had I been born earlier I may hage been diagnosed I guess as high functioning. But I am 40 so pre date that being common. Which is another reason to be suspicious of Ardays detailed diagnosis that would have happened in 1988 based on his story.

It was a diagnosis back then. I have no idea as to the veracity of his claim.
Just to say, HFA includes things such as 'masking' which can get quite deep and nuanced.

I said that Arday may have been lying about this as well based on something I had read years ago. You challenged that which made me research further and everything I am reading suggests the type of lies and actions of Arday would be extremly uncommon for someone that’s high functioning autistic and that fits with.

Lying and manipulating people as effectively as Arday did for decades requires social nuance and ability to manage people’s expectations that would be uncommon for anyone that high functioning Autistic. Typically there would be a preference for clear rules, consistency, and straightforward communication. Would also not be the only traits he has shown that are inconsistent with high functioning autism.

I would look deeper into the concept of 'masking'. There is also a deeper root here regarding HFA and lying which has nothing to do with essentially 'doing' something to others more than it is about self-protection for various reasons unique to the individual. As for your 'preferences', absolutely...and this is where the 'masking' comes in. There are, IMO, many HFA people in society who remain undiagnosed precisely because of their HF traits. Indeed, many of these people get labelled as arseholes, etc. Of course some are, indeed, that (LOL) and many can project arsehole tendencies due to various factors.

Add in the clear pattern of telling lies, it’s completely fair to question whether or not the autism diagnosis is a reality. And I am doing that within a sub forum of a Spurs forum that he will never read nor will anyone with any influence over his life beyond this weeks exposure.

Great.
Have at it.
I think part of this is you speaking to yourself? I don't think anyone has suggested your questioning anything is fair or unfair have they?

I actually think it’s a compliment to Autistic people. Lying is not a skill that should be celebrated. If anything its noble that they are are often honest to a fault.

Again, I would suggest you might want to investigate the use of 'lying' in these contexts. It's simply not that black and white. In fact, and this is a tangent, there is a fascinating debate to be had on memory nd the fact that memories are consistently reconstructive (there's a ton of papers on it out there) and mnemory in HFA people is whole other raft of reading and potential acceptance/understanding. Perhaps the more interesting angle on a discussion like this, is how far it is legitimate to give people 'a pass' in such situations versus how much they could really control? I have close close experience of watching someone with HFA try to make certain traits 'mutable' and being frustrated until the greater tool kit which came with diagnosis helped them. Now, add HFA to the potential superpower that is ADHD, and you have yourself a bundle of fun

Back to Aday. I suppose it comes down to how much we really know about him. I'd say there are several very pressurized elements, and again, based on what you posted I'd agree that the university were a huge, huge part of the problem/potential scandal.