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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

LutonSpurs said:
fudge the data. Let's assume they've all privately confessed to Rob that they felt pressured. This is police forces that have repeatedly been found to be institutionally racist, homophobic and misogynist.
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Go on then Mr Genius. What led them to handcuff and read the rights to the boy who had been stabbed?
 
robp135 said:
Go on then Mr Genius. What led them to handcuff and read the rights to the boy who had been stabbed?
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They were terrible police officers maybe? I don't know. The key thing is, neither do you. But you want to peddle hate. You have lied so many times on this thread. Not answered direct questions challenging your bs. Your hatred for immigrants is terrifying.
 
LutonSpurs said:
They were terrible police officers maybe? I don't know. The key thing is, neither do you. But you want to peddle hate. You have lied so many times on this thread. Not answered direct questions challenging your bs. Your hatred for immigrants is terrifying.
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By that logic, you also didn’t know this with George Floyd.

What have I not answered?
 
LutonSpurs said:
It isn't logic. Those police officers killed him. Here the guy in jail killed him. They are not the same. It's a genuinely pathetic analogy that the whole of the far right are making all over the internet. Swear they spent the last few years saying all lives matter.
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Initially it was unknown whether there was a racial element to George Floyd’s murder. Did you scold people if jumping to conclusions?
 
robp135 said:
Initially it was unknown whether there was a racial element to George Floyd’s murder. Did you scold people if jumping to conclusions?
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When it incites hate. Yes. It's despicable behaviour. And it is done to satisfy your own deep prejudices. You need to stop imo. Or you can continue saying the same thing is true while not actually knowing anything.
 
robp135 said:
My Dad is Irish and got a lot of abuse when he was younger and I still saw that as a kid in the 90’s. Called slurs. Pubs with signs on them we know what they would say. Parents who all of a sudden didn’t want their kid be my friend when they heard him speak. One incident where I he was made uncomfortable enough from the football coach who was a big Rangers fan that I had to move teams.

Guess that’s technically Xenephobic and its not on the level your Dad felt that’s for sure. But you are having to use your Dad as the example for a reason. Race was a major issue in the UK and in UK policing in 20+ years ago for your Father. It was not an issue to anywhere near the same degree in 2020, when these policy’s were put into overdrive due to a police murder in another country. Police training that directly resulted in how the Henry Nowak murder was responded to.
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My mother was born in Dublin. We got it all ways. Mixed-race hippie couple? Try to imagine.

LOL, I am not 'having to use my Dad as a reason' for anything. I am simply telling you what it was like. And (frankly) pointing out the massive flaws in this 'pyramid' thing.

Sadly, race has always been an issue. You would not know. How could you? I would not really know either because for the most part I look maybe mediterranean (aside from a couple of very astute young racists over time who have shouted 'sand-n' at me - FWIW I think it's funny and stupid).

The single biggest factor (IMO anyway) in racism being less publicly present as the 2000s went on, is because of technology and social media. The things people could get away with no longer flew when posted or shared. As we sadly see today, there is always a strong current of underground prejudice ready to drag people into.

Your assertion that initiatives introduced in 2020 due to the Floyd murder resulted in Nowak's murder is one I wholly, wholly disagree with. It was, IMO, a bad mistake and error of judgement on their part. It was also due to a nasty, f'd up individual twisting the narrative.

Finally, and I've said this before in other posts...I have sympathy for a lot of people who have been left wondering why their lives have not improved under various governments who said they would. All people. White people too. White poverty is very obviously real, and it is wrong, ignorant and foolish of anyone to believe that all working class/poor white people harbor racist feelings. Indeed, MOST are decent human beings just trying to make their way with whatever resources they have. Sadly, conflation merchants, aggro trolls and financial aggregators have managed to isolate several historical tropes and monetise them via 'patriotism' and in some cases, direct prejudice. It means that there are no balanced discussions or perspectives on anything anymore, because there's big money in the polarization game. It makes me sad to see, like the anger in all communities. In that sense I ally with @monkeybarry in the belief that we have to understand the true roots of grievance in the Tommy Robinson supporters clubs, understand where they're being bum-steered, and welcome both conversation and education to show them that their enemy is not someone in a boat or from another country. Sadly, we also have to accept that there are a minority who simply do not believe in the mixture of cultures or races (i.e. racists) albeit I think that is a product of fear and ignorance (as I believe all racism is in the end). We also do have to accept that proper discussions on immigration and over-population have to be had, and actions do have to be taken to maintain legality of passage, however polarisation contributes heavily to preventing that conversation from happening.


I suspect we will have to agree to disagree, but as ever, I appreciate the fact we can have this discussion. These exchanges are the only way anything moves forward (in the sense that I wish/hope more people have them as opposed to going into 'corners' and shouting at each other).
 
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robp135 said:
Initially it was unknown whether there was a racial element to George Floyd’s murder. Did you scold people if jumping to conclusions?
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False.
It was quickly known there was.
Chauvin had a history of similar actions on black people. He had multiple internal affairs enquiries into misconducts. A known racist aggressor with rookie cops under his wing.
 
thfcsteff said:
My mother was born in Dublin. We got it all ways. Mixed-race hippie couple? Try to imagine.

LOL, I am not 'having to use my Dad as a reason' for anything. I am simply telling you what it was like. And (frankly) pointing out the massive flaws in this 'pyramid' thing.

Sadly, race has always been an issue. You would not know. How could you? I would not really know either because for the most part I look maybe mediterranean (aside from a couple of very astute young racists over time who have shouted 'sand-n' at me - FWIW I think it's funny and stupid).

The single biggest factor (IMO anyway) in racism being less publicly present as the 2000s went on, is because of technology and social media. The things people could get away with no longer flew when posted or shared. As we sadly see today, there is always a strong current of underground prejudice ready to drag people into.

Your assertion that initiatives introduced in 2020 due to the Floyd murder resulted in Nowak's murder is one I wholly, wholly disagree with. It was, IMO, a bad mistake and error of judgement on their part. It was also due to a nasty, f'd up individual twisting the narrative.

Finally, and I've said this before in other posts...I have sympathy for a lot of people who have been left wondering why their lives have not improved under various governments who said they would. All people. White people too. White poverty is very obviously real, and it is wrong, ignorant and foolish of anyone to believe that all working class/poor white people harbor racist feelings. Indeed, MOST are decent human beings just trying to make their way with whatever resources they have. Sadly, conflation merchants, aggro trolls and financial aggregators have managed to isolate several historical tropes and monetise them via 'patriotism' and in some cases, direct prejudice. It means that there are no balanced discussions or perspectives on anything anymore, because there's big money in the polarization game. It makes me sad to see, like the anger in all communities. In that sense I ally with @monkeybarry in the belief that we have to understand the true roots of grievance in the Tommy Robinson supporters clubs, understand where they're being bum-steered, and welcome both conversation and education to show them that their enemy is not someone in a boat or from another country. Sadly, we also have to accept that there are a minority who simply do not believe in the mixture of cultures or races (i.e. racists) albeit I think that is a product of fear and ignorance (as I believe all racism is in the end). We also do have to accept that proper discussions on immigration and over-population have to be had, and actions do have to be taken to maintain legality of passage, however polarisation contributes heavily to preventing that conversation from happening.


I suspect we will have to agree to disagree, but as ever, I appreciate the fact we can have this discussion. These exchanges are the only way anything moves forward (in the sense that I wish/hope more people have them as opposed to going into 'corners' and shouting at each other).
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I can agree with everything you said here and still beleive that the treatment of Henry Nowak in his final moments by police was due him being white and his murderer being non white. I wouldn’t even have that much of an issue with the idea that overall these DEI/Anti Racism policy’s are a net positive. But I do not for one second beleive that had both had been the same race, he would had been treated that way and that’s down to the pressure that’s placed on the officers.
 
thfcsteff said:
False.
It was quickly known there was.
Chauvin had a history of similar actions on black people. He had multiple internal affairs enquiries into misconducts. A known racist aggressor with rookie cops under his wing.
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That was not known for at least 2-3 days.
 
robp135 said:
I can agree with everything you said here and still beleive that the treatment of Henry Nowak in his final moments by police was due him being white and his murderer being non white. I wouldn’t even have that much of an issue with the idea that overall these DEI/Anti Racism policy’s are a net positive. But I do not for one second beleive that had both had been the same race, he would had been treated that way and that’s down to the pressure that’s placed on the officers.
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At least we have clarified the opinions here. We agree to disagree.
On a side note, another 'evil' of the action of the murderer is that he falsely claimed racism. That is most unhelpful for everyone, and is especially poor.
 
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