How do you know it was a direct result of anti-racism training?
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
robp135
Sebastien Bassong
I was very much outraged by the murder of George Floyd and fully supported the inital protests. I personally beleive violent riots are often the appropriate action to bring real change.
robp135
Sebastien Bassong
Baleforce
Terry Naylor
it's a shame that people have to be trained (educated) out of being racist
I'd just not hire them in the first place
Civil disobedience with a clear cause. Yes. This case is tragic. And was entirely avoidable. I don't think their are enough parallels to compare them. This was an isolated incident. Floyd's murder was part of a culture.
robp135
Sebastien Bassong
Nowaks murder is part of the police culture.
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
You can imagine?
I think attempts to conflate these two awful, awful travesties of justice are extraordinarily cheap and not particularly well-conceived.
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
Go on, I'm intrigued by this comment...
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
What does this mean?
robp135
Sebastien Bassong
Use ya head
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
Do I have to have listened to Eileen Drewery first?
robp135
Sebastien Bassong
The British Government and police responded to a police murder on another continent by instituting large scale increases in DEI initiatives and anti-racism training programs. The fear of being labled as racist was already an epidemic within the British police force and its now resulted in a stabbing victim being handcuffed as his murderer cried racism and the police followed his lead. The “I can’t breath line” is which was synominous with George Floyd was also said by Henry Nowak is eerily similar. The response from the media and Keir Starmer was not.
thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
You are, I presume, referring to George Floyd?
Sadly, I would say the fear of deep racism with some areas in the police force has been a greater epidemic.
An awful incident, a horrendous murder, and a terrible 'mis-policed' moment for sure.
This is a horrendous murder combined with some very poor policework. It is at once a tragedy and worthy of a full investigation to try and make sure it doesn't happen again. That there is this mass attempt to turn it into a weapon to be used in some sort of building 'race war' by the likes of Nigel Farage and Tommy Robinson is appalling. The victim's own family have specifically asked for that not to be done, but it appears those agents I spoke of do not care about their wishes.
Quite rightly, it appears to me that this murder has been swiftly dealt with, and all the circumstances surrounding it are also being investigated so as to try and not have a situation like this happen again.
FWIW, in this case, the murderer was sentenced unequivocally in 6 months, whereas in George Floyd's case, it took 3 years for any sentencing to take place.
What it appears you're trying to do is blame what you see as an 'overreaction to Floyd's murder' as the reason this murder happened, by way of suggesting the initiatives introduced were too stringent.
I watched the video.
Sadly, I think the biggest issue is that the officers themselves allowed pre-baked prejudices to dictate policy.
It looks to me like far from being 'over-trained' they simply made an assumption that the victim was perhaps inebriated and had initiated a conflict which went wrong.
Of course this in and of itself is an absolute joke as the first thing they should be doing is checking for injuries and getting medical professionals on hand NOT making assumptions. It is grave mistake which cost the victim his life.
I personally think declaring it as some flashing light telling us all that DEI/anti-racist intiatives were the reason for this error is very, very wide of the mark. I believe there are people out there using this tragedy to further their own agendas, in the process ignoring what the victim's family have asked for which is wholly disrespectful.
A footnote here - I have great sympathy for the police, who I feel are increasingly placed in impossible situations via a deadly combination of factors including social unrest, manufactured hate, mental health issues, and societal frustrations. I am not judging the frustrations per se, but I do think that increasingly the police are being asked to become de facto social workers and 'mental health experts' in an already tough, tough job.
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robp135
Sebastien Bassong
US and UK have different legal systems and legal standards which are then further individualised by the state. Police unions are very powerful in the US as well. It’s not uncommon for cases to be dragged out here and your dealing with civilians vs cop too. Lawyers have to hit their hours as well.
I would probably agree with much of your viewpoint on US police and racism with US police and even wider society. I don’t think it should have had any influence over British policing which it did.
If you don’t think it played a part in the police response here your entitled to your view. I think your wildly incorrect in that assessment. I also think the families comments and Farages have been wildly misinterpreted.
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thfcsteff
Ricky Villa
Henry Norwalk's family said this: “We want to use Henry’s heartbreaking story to make change for the better. We do not want his death to be used to create further division, hatred or tension. We want his story to help make our streets safer for everyone.“
Nigel Farage said this:
“What does he say? I can’t breathe.
“Familiar words. Remember career criminal George Floyd, who died in appalling circumstances in Midwest America a few years ago.
“Remember the reaction to that and the way the police behaved? Within a few days Keir Starmer was taking the knee. Black Lives Matter exploded all over the country. Churchill’s statue was defaced, the cenotaph was vandalised. And yet, what has the public reaction been from our leaders and politicians, and indeed, to be frank, much of the media to this? “Silence, absolute silence. Proof, if ever there was any, that we are living in a two-tier culture in this country where the rights and privileges of white people matter less than those of ethnic minorities.”
What is there that is being 'wildly misinterpreted'? It seems pretty clear to me what Farage is doing. It seems pretty clear what the Norwalk family is saying.
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glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
Tut, tut, taking our Lords image in vain.
MartyFunkhouser
Garth Crooks
I have never knuckle dragged my way to a protest........so yeh consistent
For the record I found the looting after George Flloyd opportunist, just as I find going all the way to Southampton to cause trouble at the request of a grifter like Tiny Tommy opportunist, just as I did when he tried to get people to Stirling with a fake story about a stabbing.
The family have clearly called for calm, its their grief to deal with not mine so although I find the whole case problematic on many levels, I respect their wishes, who wouldn't at such a time???
And no one is taking anyone comments out of context, its clear as day what has been said and asked for.
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I do worry that we are going to see the baby being thrown out with the bathwater here.
Huge strides have been made in improviing police behaviour in respect of things like racism and misogyny, but there is still a long way to go until there is true equality of treatment and outcome across the board.
Whatever decision making process was employed in this particular case needs to be investigated, as will happen through the IOPC enquiry.
Right now there seems to be a lot of knee-jerking as to 'this needs to change' or "that needs to change". Let's just see what the IOPC recommends before making changes which might be detrimental to the work that has been done thus far.
Huge strides have been made in improviing police behaviour in respect of things like racism and misogyny, but there is still a long way to go until there is true equality of treatment and outcome across the board.
Whatever decision making process was employed in this particular case needs to be investigated, as will happen through the IOPC enquiry.
Right now there seems to be a lot of knee-jerking as to 'this needs to change' or "that needs to change". Let's just see what the IOPC recommends before making changes which might be detrimental to the work that has been done thus far.
Its a pre cursor to some ominous ideas from the far right. The breakdown in consensus will push for earlier GE. And Reform coming in to power before 2029 feels like a higher probability now.