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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

P.D. said:
No way he couldn't have known something like that and if he didn't then his whole operation is incompetent.
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I can very much believe it, and that's why the Senior Civil Servant has gone.

I've seen people go through developed vetting - it's an intense process. Quite how there can be an over rule mechanism is ridiculous - that needs removing or, if it has a legitimate function, extra controls in place, one of which should be ministerial sign off!
 
The Starmer government rapidly got people to where they got to with the Johnson government. It is either corruption or complete incompetence/wilfull blindness.

You have just replaced the holiday homes, wallpaper, Covid rule breaches, Dominic Cummings and Chris Pincher stuff with Lord Alli/copious gifts/hospitality, Rachel Reeve's CV, Reyner's tax affairs, and Mandelson.

The constant flip-flop on policy doesn't help and the strong and popular stance taken on not getting involved in the massive hole the yanks dug for themselves in Iran hasn't seemed to arrest the overall public impression of him.
 
I’m personally sick to death of the resignation calls everywhere when something goes wrong.

Police chiefs get sacked when a lunatic goes on a killing spree. A fire phalanx commander to be sacked when a house burns down. A headteacher to stand down because the parents send in untoilet trained unruly kids.

A prime minister to be sacked because he appointed someone with perverted friends to go work with one of those perverts.

There is no resilience in this country and leaders can’t lead because of events not because of policy.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
The Starmer government rapidly got people to where they got to with the Johnson government. It is either corruption or complete incompetence/wilfull blindness.

You have just replaced the holiday homes, wallpaper, Covid rule breaches, Dominic Cummings and Chris Pincher stuff with Lord Alli/copious gifts/hospitality, Rachel Reeve's CV, Reyner's tax affairs, and Mandelson.

The constant flip-flop on policy doesn't help and the strong and popular stance taken on not getting involved in the massive hole the yanks dug for themselves in Iran hasn't seemed to arrest the overall public impression of him.
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It isn't the same level of incompetence and definitely not the same level of corruption as under Johnson and the Tories, even though it is probably re-assuring to you to try and make that case.

For bizarre, illogical reasons, partly driven by the media, Labour (and any progressives) are held to higher standards than conservatives, who are allowed a certain freedom to lean on their money-grubbing, cronyistic behaviour, because that is what 'economic-savvy', city people are like and that is what makes them successful or some such BS, whilst idealistic people are hypocrites if they fall short of the much higher standards that are set for them.

Appointing and backing Pincher was levels above either Ali or Mandelson.
The copious gifts and hospitality is rife through all political parties (and especially in the grifting party you are likely to vote for - see Suella's recent 7K in declared gifts), Rachel Reeves's CV was a massive non-issue if it had been a Tory male who had spun something.

False equivalents of they are all as bad as each other continues to undercut and break UK politics. There are some definite wrong'uns - like Johnson, Farage, Truss, Zahawi - and then there is a lot of people who adapt to a system that is functionally crap and use it legally but immorally as it is just what happens in a place like Westminster.
 
Lost Mango said:
It isn't the same level of incompetence and definitely not the same level of corruption as under Johnson and the Tories, even though it is probably re-assuring to you to try and make that case.

For bizarre, illogical reasons, partly driven by the media, Labour (and any progressives) are held to higher standards than conservatives, who are allowed a certain freedom to lean on their money-grubbing, cronyistic behaviour, because that is what 'economic-savvy', city people are like and that is what makes them successful or some such BS, whilst idealistic people are hypocrites if they fall short of the much higher standards that are set for them.

Appointing and backing Pincher was levels above either Ali or Mandelson.
The copious gifts and hospitality is rife through all political parties (and especially in the grifting party you are likely to vote for - see Suella's recent 7K in declared gifts), Rachel Reeves's CV was a massive non-issue if it had been a Tory male who had spun something.

False equivalents of they are all as bad as each other continues to undercut and break UK politics. There are some definite wrong'uns - like Johnson, Farage, Truss, Zahawi - and then there is a lot of people who adapt to a system that is functionally crap and use it legally but immorally as it is just what happens in a place like Westminster.
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I am sorry, but Mandelson is actually under criminal investigation for accepting large payments and disclosing confidental market sensitive information to the person sending the large payments. Re-appointing this guy in government is way beyond the mostly noise of the Johnson government. Way beyond.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
I am sorry, but Mandelson is actually under criminal investigation for accepting large payments and disclosing confidental market sensitive information to the person sending the large payments. Re-appointing this guy in government is way beyond the mostly noise of the Johnson government. Way beyond.
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Was he under investigation when he was vetted and appointed? If not, then is any subsequent action relevant to the discussion?

The fact you dismiss the Johnson era as just 'noise' speaks volumes.
 
Lost Mango said:
It isn't the same level of incompetence and definitely not the same level of corruption as under Johnson and the Tories, even though it is probably re-assuring to you to try and make that case.

For bizarre, illogical reasons, partly driven by the media, Labour (and any progressives) are held to higher standards than conservatives, who are allowed a certain freedom to lean on their money-grubbing, cronyistic behaviour, because that is what 'economic-savvy', city people are like and that is what makes them successful or some such BS, whilst idealistic people are hypocrites if they fall short of the much higher standards that are set for them.

Appointing and backing Pincher was levels above either Ali or Mandelson.
The copious gifts and hospitality is rife through all political parties (and especially in the grifting party you are likely to vote for - see Suella's recent 7K in declared gifts), Rachel Reeves's CV was a massive non-issue if it had been a Tory male who had spun something.

False equivalents of they are all as bad as each other continues to undercut and break UK politics. There are some definite wrong'uns - like Johnson, Farage, Truss, Zahawi - and then there is a lot of people who adapt to a system that is functionally crap and use it legally but immorally as it is just what happens in a place like Westminster.
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Good post. They are all just as bad as each other is a deflection that usually comes from one side, and is used as a defence to their own behaviour. It is not something specific to the UK either. Where the right largely controls the media, you hear this BS all the time.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
I am sorry, but Mandelson is actually under criminal investigation for accepting large payments and disclosing confidental market sensitive information to the person sending the large payments. Re-appointing this guy in government is way beyond the mostly noise of the Johnson government. Way beyond.
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Ambassadors arent members of government
 
Lost Mango said:
Was he under investigation when he was vetted and appointed? If not, then is any subsequent action relevant to the discussion?

The fact you dismiss the Johnson era as just 'noise' speaks volumes.
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A lot of it was noise as although it was behaviour that was unbefitting of public servants at such a high level there was no resulting implication or action relating to serious criminal or civil misconduct.

He wasn't under criminal investigation when vetted and appointed but he was heavily linked to Epstein who WAS subject to ongoing investigations in the US relating to his global political links and the UK criminal investigation arose out of the files disclosed by US authorities.

You know the Johnson government was appauling and i am never going to vote conservative again precisely because of the conduct of that government.

However, those towards the left really need to take their heads out of the sand - for all the talk of corruption in the tory party the only evidence of serious and criminal misconduct on a corruption level currently being investigated by UK authorities relate to the Labour government of 1997-2010 (one of the central suspects of which was an advisor to Starmer and was subsequently appointed by the current Labour government to a prestigious political position - the other central suspect being Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor who had been appointed as trade envoy by Labour govt of the same era) and the SNP, resulting in formal charges being brought against Nicola Sturgeon's husband and party Chief Executive.
 
johnola said:
I’m personally sick to death of the resignation calls everywhere when something goes wrong.

Police chiefs get sacked when a lunatic goes on a killing spree. A fire phalanx commander to be sacked when a house burns down. A headteacher to stand down because the parents send in untoilet trained unruly kids.

A prime minister to be sacked because he appointed someone with perverted friends to go work with one of those perverts.

There is no resilience in this country and leaders can’t lead because of events not because of policy.
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If it was the only dodgy looking thing he had done I would have said I agree, it's not, he has stumbled from one scandal to another
 
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