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Micky van de Ven

The team is in this situation due to himself and many other not putting in good enough performances and having the wrong attitude. If he is suffering mentally because of this then i'm afraid he hasn't got the mentality to be an elite player and should not be anywhere near the first team.
 
DeanoAustin said:
I’m not trying to claim that he’s playing well. He’s not. It’s the people assuming he’s not trying, he doesn’t care or he thinks he’s too good for a relegation scrap that tinkle me off. None of us know what is going through hi head but this is the lad who we adored, by and large, for two years.

He’s clearly struggling and needs to be supported not turned on by his own fans.
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Equally he has shown a lack of leadership and character, that all feeds into noise, rightly or wrongly.

Ultimately he has had a poor season as a senior player and we are in serious relagation trouble, thats why in the whole he is one thats coming under firm criticism
 
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DeanoAustin said:
I’m not trying to claim that he’s playing well. He’s not. It’s the people assuming he’s not trying, he doesn’t care or he thinks he’s too good for a relegation scrap that tinkle me off. None of us know what is going through his head but this is the lad who we adored, by and large, for two years.

He’s clearly struggling and needs to be supported not turned on by his own fans.
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I think every player is trying
I also think some are struggling with the basics
It’s fair to say Micky is one of those imo
Normally when that happens it can take some time to snap out of it
I do believe he has had some people telling him how great he is outside of the club (I don’t think any of this seasons managers work like that) and he hasn’t addressed the flaws in his game (reading the game and heading a ball)
But I don’t think he is sabotaging us or downing tools. I think he is lost a bit
Recent when Jan when through this under Sherwood IIRC
You don’t lose ability
 
IMO when a team is a a proper downward spiraling rut, that's where the manager earns his corn. The players will try and do anything and anything but nothing seems to work, because they are are really stuck. It's not for the want of trying, it's just never going to change. No matter what they do.

The hardest part is just stopping the downwards spiral, before even thinking about reversing it.
Unfortunately we haven't had that stability in management to do that. Frank inherited the beginning of it, but clearly lacks the know how of how to stop it. That's why I think Ang and the EL win might have been able to at least do that much, as there would have been a level of stability.
The only other opinion would have been to get a truly experienced manager at the beginning of the new season who could have dealt with reversing the rut.
It's not really about the players mentality, it's about leadership in Management. And we keep getting that fundamentally wrong again and again.
Tudor to his credit is supposed to be renowned for that specifically, so hopefully it works out and he can stop dive enough to secure our place in the Prem.
If TF came to the club were we were in a relatively good place, I'm sure he would have done well, but the board are stupid and vastly inexperienced to read where we actually were at the time, and appointed the wrong type of manager that was needed.
I don't think don't think most of the players have the wrong mentality, I just don't think they know how they should get out of this down spiral, none of them have probably ever experienced anything like it before in their careers.
 
totalspurs said:
IMO when a team is a a proper downward spiraling rut, that's where the manager earns his corn. The players will try and do anything and anything but nothing seems to work, because they are are really stuck. It's not for the want of trying, it's just never going to change. No matter what they do.

The hardest part is just stopping the downwards spiral, before even thinking about reversing it.
Unfortunately we haven't had that stability in management to do that. Frank inherited the beginning of it, but clearly lacks the know how of how to stop it. That's why I think Ang and the EL win might have been able to at least do that much, as there would have been a level of stability.
The only other opinion would have been to get a truly experienced manager at the beginning of the new season who could have dealt with reversing the rut.
It's not really about the players mentality, it's about leadership in Management. And we keep getting that fundamentally wrong again and again.
Tudor to his credit is supposed to be renowned for that specifically, so hopefully it works out and he can stop dive enough to secure our place in the Prem.
If TF came to the club were we were in a relatively good place, I'm sure he would have done well, but the board are stupid and vastly inexperienced to read where we actually were at the time, and appointed the wrong type of manager that was needed.
I don't think don't think most of the players have the wrong mentality, I just don't think they know how they should get out of this down spiral, none of them have probably ever experienced anything like it before in their careers.
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This. All day.
 
totalspurs said:
IMO when a team is a a proper downward spiraling rut, that's where the manager earns his corn. The players will try and do anything and anything but nothing seems to work, because they are are really stuck. It's not for the want of trying, it's just never going to change. No matter what they do.

The hardest part is just stopping the downwards spiral, before even thinking about reversing it.
Unfortunately we haven't had that stability in management to do that. Frank inherited the beginning of it, but clearly lacks the know how of how to stop it. That's why I think Ang and the EL win might have been able to at least do that much, as there would have been a level of stability.
The only other opinion would have been to get a truly experienced manager at the beginning of the new season who could have dealt with reversing the rut.
It's not really about the players mentality, it's about leadership in Management. And we keep getting that fundamentally wrong again and again.
Tudor to his credit is supposed to be renowned for that specifically, so hopefully it works out and he can stop dive enough to secure our place in the Prem.
If TF came to the club were we were in a relatively good place, I'm sure he would have done well, but the board are stupid and vastly inexperienced to read where we actually were at the time, and appointed the wrong type of manager that was needed.
I don't think don't think most of the players have the wrong mentality, I just don't think they know how they should get out of this down spiral, none of them have probably ever experienced anything like it before in their careers.
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The hardest thing to change in sports is momentum.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
He’s being vilified over social media for apparently walking around the training ground saying he doesn’t care as his agent is in discussions about a move to Barcelona.
No actual proof or substance that I have seen to this, and it just doesn’t seem to fit with what we know of his character.
But we’ve just seen an interview where he’s said he is struggling mentally with where things are right now.
How do these rumours help that?
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Two totally different things.

I think it is rubbish. Sounds like the 'whisper' game on steroids, and with some added chunks of assumption.
 
Some fans are turning on him to protect themselves if he leaves in the summer. I can’t get on my high horse, I’ve done it myself with players.

But let’s be realistic. VDV walks into our team, whether that’s at CB or LB now due to super Kev is another thing. But as soon as he’s fit he plays
 
I think all this goes away if VDV steps out on the pitch tomorrow night and has a stormer.

We're obviously treating him as a senior player and leader. Food for thought that he's only 24. All his best years are ahead of him.
 
thfcsteff said:
Two totally different things.

I think it is rubbish. Sounds like the 'whisper' game on steroids, and with some added chunks of assumption.
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"Sometimes we just read things about ourselves and other players. We are just like, 'What is this?' We read something about one guy who said they were going to leave and doesn't care about the situation they are in, and then someone reads this and it's like 'How does this come out?' People just make things up and it's frustrating for us because it brings so much more trouble. The fans then start to believe this or start saying 'Oh the guys do not care anymore. What's going to happen with the club?'
 
JerusalemMan said:
"Sometimes we just read things about ourselves and other players. We are just like, 'What is this?' We read something about one guy who said they were going to leave and doesn't care about the situation they are in, and then someone reads this and it's like 'How does this come out?' People just make things up and it's frustrating for us because it brings so much more trouble. The fans then start to believe this or start saying 'Oh the guys do not care anymore. What's going to happen with the club?'
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It why managers and players within the game constantly bang on about 'blocking out the outside noise'. It serves no purpose for them. And in reality 95% of it serves no purpose for us. When it's your OWN club WTF are fans doing. There's 100 other things you could be doing that are not tainted with self harm, self sabotage, negativity, nastiness, hatred etc.

Its so easy to flippantly dish out this gonads when you're not on the receiving end.
 
totalspurs said:
IMO when a team is a a proper downward spiraling rut, that's where the manager earns his corn. The players will try and do anything and anything but nothing seems to work, because they are are really stuck. It's not for the want of trying, it's just never going to change. No matter what they do.

The hardest part is just stopping the downwards spiral, before even thinking about reversing it.
Unfortunately we haven't had that stability in management to do that. Frank inherited the beginning of it, but clearly lacks the know how of how to stop it. That's why I think Ang and the EL win might have been able to at least do that much, as there would have been a level of stability.
The only other opinion would have been to get a truly experienced manager at the beginning of the new season who could have dealt with reversing the rut.
It's not really about the players mentality, it's about leadership in Management. And we keep getting that fundamentally wrong again and again.
Tudor to his credit is supposed to be renowned for that specifically, so hopefully it works out and he can stop dive enough to secure our place in the Prem.
If TF came to the club were we were in a relatively good place, I'm sure he would have done well, but the board are stupid and vastly inexperienced to read where we actually were at the time, and appointed the wrong type of manager that was needed.
I don't think don't think most of the players have the wrong mentality, I just don't think they know how they should get out of this down spiral, none of them have probably ever experienced anything like it before in their careers.
Click to expand...

Agreed wholeheartedly.

And on a separate point to your own, I think it does make the decision to appoint Frank worse on the basis that our best players (Romero and VDV) were wholly unsuited to the kind of football he wanted to play. So even if we were in a ‘good moment’, he probably still would have struggled because he’d have been trying to make aggressive high line specialists play as box defenders, where they were weaker and leaving us more exposed.
 
People believe anything that people say for clout, that’s the issue. When you have Spurs sites where people readily donate decent sums of cash to receive often completely false information, and then when they question it they get banned people see there’s a grift available so more jump on the bandwagon.

These aren’t fans of the club, they’re people who see that they can use their club to make cash. Being first is now more important than being correct.
 
JerusalemMan said:
"Sometimes we just read things about ourselves and other players. We are just like, 'What is this?' We read something about one guy who said they were going to leave and doesn't care about the situation they are in, and then someone reads this and it's like 'How does this come out?' People just make things up and it's frustrating for us because it brings so much more trouble. The fans then start to believe this or start saying 'Oh the guys do not care anymore. What's going to happen with the club?'
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Right.
It's bull brick.
I said it on the pod this week, there's a nasty football industry which we are currently filing and as a support base, we need to ignore the bull brick and focus on getting behind (and believing) the players and the club for the next 8 games.
 
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