K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Nayim
Bring back Poch?
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Bring back Poch?
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
Nuance and sense of compromise has all but gone and nothing highlighted it more than Brexit.
Should we have exited the EU, no.
Is the EU flawed, yes.
Should we and the EU have tried to reach a compromise that would have not only swung the vote here but spiked the guns of the anti EU parties in other European countries, undoubtedly.
But the EU refused Cameron and when it came to negotiations neither side were willing to compromise, so everyone got what no one wanted.
My standard retort to moaners now is "well this is what you voted for".
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
People are dumb. 8/10 elections are won by the taller candidate because subconsciously people still associate physical prowess with good leadership. Stone age brains in a space age world.
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
I'm sure this is no shock to you, but it won't.
Mainly because the glory days were not that glorious.
What I cannot get my head around is that standard of living has risen but the quality of life has dropped.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Destruction of community, reduced social mobility, unprecedently higher levels of inequality (generational as well as class), declining security related rights for the powerless (workers, renters)
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
People are being convinced they are unhappy. And maybe they are. But they being told what to be unhappy about things which have literal zero impact on them.
On another point.
The idea that this country has anything resembling left wing in opposition or in power is just not true.
I refuse to consider the Corbyn and Zara project as anything other than the same anti imperialist contradctions flimflam we've heard for years. Sincere people but bonkers and they fudge themsevles on the tankie stuff.
Green are now moving left. Membership and representation. But we are yet to see if it gains any meaningful polling numbers.
And Reform are genuinely far right although as they get closer to power I feel they will change but not for anything but optics.
Sad state of affairs. Social justice benefits us all. And we don't seem to want it.
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
Certainly agree on the community aspects, too much screen time and not enough people time, that goes for all ages.
Not so much on social mobility or inequality.
Renters rights, yeah that's fudged.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Nayim
I'm old enough fo remember the infamous Tory slogan "if you want a nigger for your neighbour vote Labour" in the 60's
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
There's no true left because few people actually want it, and those that do cannot articulate it well or be trusted to actually carry it through.
The true Greens are moving left because being green isn't getting them elected, the left are attaching themselves to the greens because they have yet to realise that being green isn't actually a vote winner. Neither appear to realise it is a flawed strategy.
Reform are only a cabal of opportunistic grifters out for all they can get. They've latched on to an idea and will ride it for all it's worth.
They care not who or how many they harm as long as they come out the side with what they want.
We all say we want social justice, just not at a cost or inconvenience to ourselves.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Re social mobility - there's been a big uptick in people in positions of power and influence (politics, business, culture) being from private schools (despite only being 8% of the population). 75% of Reform MPs are private school for example. Almost no professional musicians now are from state schools, whereas they dominated the 90s and early 00s.
An inequality, the disparity of wealth between the 1% and the 99% is at historic highs, almost at end of serfdom levels.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Nayim
Good point about musicians you could add acting as well, in 60's I had as many mates who were playing in groups playing in local pubs and clubs or acting at the Unity Theatre (Somers Town) as were playing football. Now most people in those fields are coming from universities.
Rorschach
Mel Hopkins
This is the key point. Growth, growth, growth!!! Growth for who though? And to what end and effect?
The focus of most governments today and in the recent past is not on improving the welfare of their citizens. This is what they spin it as, but it is a myth. And repeated enough times it becomes an illusory truth embedded deep within people's psyche. People need to wake up and make a different choice.
Last edited:
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
Cricket and Rugby are mostly elite sports.
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
I'm replying separately to your first point because I think it's very interesting.
I think people are more unsatisfied and that's leading them to be unhappy.
There is a constant message of you deserve better, but no can deliver it.
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
Is that not partially due to more being able to afford private education and willing to pay for it because state education is so poor. That's mobility.
The rich maybe getting richer, but I would argue there are less poor and the level poverty has improved. Surely what you have should be more important than what someone else has?
glasgowspur
Paul Stewart
Surely that's as much to do with the much larger % of the population attending uni in comparison to the 60s.
Lost Mango
Jose Dominguez
From: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...2022-chapter-2-mobility-outcomes#key-insights
The dominant view in politics and the media has been that social mobility in the UK is in decline and that the UK compares very badly with other countries. But the evidence is not as gloomy as the popular narrative.
The UK’s total occupational mobility rate has remained stable for many decades. This is an absolute measure that gives the percentage of people in a different occupational class from their parents.
In the late 20th century, there was a large surplus of upward over downward mobility, but this surplus is now shrinking, as growth in professional and managerial jobs slows. But this is a sign of success – it is because the professional class has grown so much in the last 70 years.
Relative rates of occupational mobility – the relative chances of people from different backgrounds reaching a particular destination – are not in decline, and may even have improved over decades.
There is less consensus on mobility in other outcomes such as income, wealth, housing and education. Trends in these mobility outcomes may be different. For example, there probably has been a decline in absolute and relative income mobility for people born in the late 1970s and beyond.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Its not just universities, as that's 40% of the population. It's more the precarious/unpaid period required at the start of careers mean only those with trust fund/extensive parental support can do those 'training role' years. It's the same with law, fashion, all sorts - wherever there is a culture of expecting prolonged unpaid work at entry level.
Lost Mango
Jose Dominguez
politics - number of MPs as an indictor we are at historically low level of Privately educated MPS. There has been a slight uptick since 2015 (now just over 20%) in 1979 it was almost 50% and stayed above 30% all the way through to 2015. So not as bad (or the fault of Reform in this case, although they all basically Tory MPs looking to stay 'relevant') as you may think.
Law and boardrooms is probably a different matter but strangely our democracy is probably the most representative that it has ever been.
LutonSpurs
Eric Dear
The word satisfied is actually accurate. I agree.