The 'If You Still Need to Purge Yourself Of Ange' Thread

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Oh give it a rest, we beat mediocre teams in a competition we were favourites to win. He also happened to have the luck that his first Europa league campaign with us was at a time non of the champions league teams dropped into it. We finished 17th and didn’t beat a top 5 team from their league at all in the Europa league run. We can go on about giving him respect for winning the trophy but lets not make out it wasn’t a given if we took it seriously.

You’re wrong, we beat Frankfurt. A huge win and result at their place, that was effectively the final. If we won that, we had a great chance of winning the trophy, and we did.

 

[DeanoAustin]

He effectively did. He said I gave the team 2 days off, before the last game. That was him trying to explain the loss to Brighton in the last game of the season.

He never said he threw the last few league games. He said he prioritised the Europa in the last 5-6 weeks and he gave the players two days to celebrate the Europa League win. That’s not the same as throwing games.

People can criticise both those decisions with validity if they want but there is no need to sensationalise what he said to infer that he lost them deliberately.

 

[Grays_1890]

Good player transcend issues

MGW looks like a busted flush

 

[fernadez]

Someone should check on Gibbs-White

 

[Gazza]

Good player transcend issues

MGW looks like a busted flush

Difficult to play with a gun to your head.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

A shambles of a situation all round. Clearly the wrong move for Forest after Nuno, clearly a trigger happy owner with no patience.

It could have worked in as much as par for Forest, IMO, is mid to lower-mid table. Ange could have managed that with time, I’ve no doubt. However, given that expectations are elevated there after last year, his poor start and the shift in style, once momentum went against him, things snowballed. The constant media chatter willing a story knowing how shaky the foundations were, the crowd turning on him early, Ange’s public utterances all compounded each other to make the situation untenable. Sacking him is the right decision not because he wasn’t capable of doing the job or because he couldn’t have turned it around in a normal environment but because the whole cesspool of factors I mentioned just made the end inevitable.

Ange has some responsibility here. The job couldn’t have been less suitable for him and he went in knowing the situation. He’s better off out of it but his reputation is in tatters a bit. It’s a long way back for him.

I agree with a lot of this.

The only thing I’d add and where I slightly disagree with a lot of what has been written about his time, is that their squad was wildly unsuited to Ange. I actually think Nuno’s issue with Edu was that he signed players not suited to him, and I think Ange had players that could play his style. Not ideal, particularly at centre back because there was no one remotely like Van De Ven. And upfront they needed someone much better, because Wood didn’t suit Ange. But otherwise, he had a lot of winger depth, a strong central midfield, and full backs that could invert like Zinchenko and attack well like Williams.

But I think you’re right on the money that if the expectation this season was that Ange changes the style while maintaining them in mid table, before pushing on next year, he likely does ok. Clearly the expectation though was improve on Nuno’s finish. And change the style. And do it without a pre season. And that’s crazy.

It also seems like Ange was trying to adapt…he’s played a 343 and a 352. And I think a large part of this is bad luck. If they’d beaten Swansea and Betis as they deserved, and probably Burnley and Sunderland as well, it would give him more breathing room. But it just didn’t happen, with pretty shocking finishing,

Last thing I’d say is I wonder if Ange, like Russell Martin and others that have been really wedded to a certain style are cycling out of relevance and effectiveness in the league. I think Ange has actually tried to be more adaptable at Forest, but clearly there’s a shift right across the league to duels, set pieces and more direct play. So Ange’s style, and actually the squad that Edu has built, is kind of built for a prior age.

 

[Gazza]

Can we just delete this thread now I feel like Ange has proved himself for what he was. He was there when we won a cup. Anything after this is just a little sad.

 

[Robspur12]

He never said he threw the last few league games. He said he prioritised the Europa in the last 5-6 weeks and he gave the players two days to celebrate the Europa League win. That’s not the same as throwing games.

People can criticise both those decisions with validity if they want but there is no need to sensationalise what he said to infer that he lost them deliberately.

@DeanoAustin I think I have been very reasonable in my posts towards him, so your accusation of me sensationalising is wide of the mark. This is what he said “the last game against Brighton the players were out partying for 2 days which I sanctioned.” That was 2 days before the next game which was 3 days later. So to me and a lot fans it suggests I didn’t care about that game enough to properly prepare. Not a good thing to say imho. I don’t think with respect, that is sensationalising.

 

[DeanoAustin]

@DeanoAustin I think I have been very reasonable in my posts towards him, so your accusation of me sensationalising is wide of the mark. This is what he said “the last game against Brighton the players were out partying for 2 days which I sanctioned.” That was 2 days before the next game. So to me and a lot fans it suggests I didn’t care about that game enough to properly prepare. Not a good thing to say imho. I don’t think with respect, that is sensationalising.

Not you mate. It was the original post I quoted which said he admitted he threw games. He didn’t.

I was a little uneasy with the preparation for the Brighton game personally. I thought it was unprofessional. However, we had just won our first trophy in 17 years, the parade was planned for the Friday. It was a meaningless game. I’d have preferred us to prepare properly, play that game and then celebrate but I understand why we didn’t.

It still wasn’t Ange throwing games.

 

[Robspur12]

Not you mate. It was the original post I quoted which said he admitted he threw games. He didn’t.

I was a little uneasy with the preparation for the Brighton game personally. I thought it was unprofessional. However, we had just won our first trophy in 17 years, the parade was planned for the Friday. It was a meaningless game. I’d have preferred us to prepare properly, play that game and then celebrate but I understand why we didn’t.

It still wasn’t Ange throwing games.

I think we are arguing semantics tbh. It’s not just that he didnt prioritise the league games in terms of selection, the performances suggested he didn’t prepare the teams he put out enough for them. Some might say, quite reasonably, that’s throwing games. Compare the way he approached them to Palace for example.

 

[harr1984]

You’re wrong, we beat Frankfurt. A huge win and result at their place, that was effectively the final. If we won that, we had a great chance of winning the trophy, and we did.

The whole attempt to put down what Ange did with this 'He only beat mediocre teams' is cringeworthy. Firstly, yeah we was in the Europa League not the Champions League so obviously we aren't coming up against Real Madrid - but to win any European game, especially away from home is difficult. Shall we list some of the teams we lost to and got knocked out to in the Europa League under Poch and other managers if playing and beating these teams are a pretty easy achievement? And since when is us being favourites meant to work in our favour? We are famous for not achieving what we should.

And there were some good teams in there - Lazio, Roma, Atheltic Club, Frankfurt to name a few. Had our road to the final included playing more of them no one would be coming out with lines about how bang average the opposition are. But they got knocked out by these apparent bang average clubs who got to play us on merit and unlike other 'bigger' teams Ange and the boys got the job done.

It's fine to have wanted him gone but also acknowledge what a good job Ange and everyone did in that European season without trying to diminish the achievement.....

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

The whole attempt to put down what Ange did with this 'He only beat mediocre teams' is cringeworthy. Firstly, yeah we was in the Europa League not the Champions League so obviously we aren't coming up against Real Madrid - but to win any European game, especially away from home is difficult. Shall we list some of the teams we lost to and got knocked out to in the Europa League under Poch and other managers if playing and beating these teams are a pretty easy achievement? And since when is us being favourites meant to work in our favour? We are famous for not achieving what we should.

And there were some good teams in there - Lazio, Roma, Atheltic Club, Frankfurt to name a few. Had our road to the final included playing more of them no one would be coming out with lines about how bang average the opposition are. But they got knocked out by these apparent bang average clubs who got to play us on merit and unlike other 'bigger' teams Ange and the boys got the job done.

It's fine to have wanted him gone but also acknowledge what a good job Ange and everyone did in that European season without trying to diminish the achievement.....

Agreed. I didn’t mention Bodo as I wanted to rebut the exact point in the post I was responding to, but you’re absolutely right. There were other strong teams in the competition, who got knocked out by teams like Bodo. Who clearly aren’t mugs themselves. And we beat them too.

Everyone also talks about how United were mugs, and were an easy win. They beat Athletic in the semis, who finished 4th in La Liga. So another top 5 team in a top 5 league that didn’t win the trophy. And yet we did.

 

[Mikey10]

Not you mate. It was the original post I quoted which said he admitted he threw games. He didn’t.

I was a little uneasy with the preparation for the Brighton game personally. I thought it was unprofessional. However, we had just won our first trophy in 17 years, the parade was planned for the Friday. It was a meaningless game. I’d have preferred us to prepare properly, play that game and then celebrate but I understand why we didn’t.

It still wasn’t Ange throwing games.

People paid £60+ to attend that Brighton game, so I’m not sure it can be described as meaningless. I’d long since stopped attending while he was in charge, but I’d have been mighty p issed off had I paid to go.

Anyhow, that’s the end of him in the PL. Maybe the Greek league next, which feels a more natural fit.

 

[DeanoAustin]

I think we are arguing semantics tbh. It’s not just that he didnt prioritise the league games in terms of selection, the performances suggested he didn’t prepare the teams he put out enough for them. Some might say, quite reasonably, that’s throwing games. Compare the way he approached them to Palace for example.

I don’t think it is semantics. People should be accountable for what they say. The poster said “he threw games”. That means he lost them deliberately. That’s a pretty serious accusation.

He prioritised the Europa League. He did it to an extent I’m still not comfortable with. However, I absolutely believe that he always tried to win and certainly didn’t deliberately lose. There is enough to criticise Ange about without throwing false accusations at him that question his character and integrity.

 

[Robspur12]

The whole attempt to put down what Ange did with this 'He only beat mediocre teams' is cringeworthy. Firstly, yeah we was in the Europa League not the Champions League so obviously we aren't coming up against Real Madrid - but to win any European game, especially away from home is difficult. Shall we list some of the teams we lost to and got knocked out to in the Europa League under Poch and other managers if playing and beating these teams are a pretty easy achievement? And since when is us being favourites meant to work in our favour? We are famous for not achieving what we should.

And there were some good teams in there - Lazio, Roma, Atheltic Club, Frankfurt to name a few. Had our road to the final included playing more of them no one would be coming out with lines about how bang average the opposition are. But they got knocked out by these apparent bang average clubs who got to play us on merit and unlike other 'bigger' teams Ange and the boys got the job done.

It's fine to have wanted him gone but also acknowledge what a good job Ange and everyone did in that European season without trying to diminish the achievement.....

The problem is mate, he is so marmite which has kind of tarnished any legacy in the minds of many Spurs fans. What has Spurs got to do with his struggles at Forest? He thinks winning the Europa League was everything. That’s just a bit naive. I think tbh a lot of things went right for him as they do for all managers who win trophies based on knockout competitions, outside of the 5 biggest clubs. Alex Mcleish did it at Birmingham, Roberto Martinez at Wigan. AVB won the Europa with Porto. But all of these managers struggle with the bread and butter which is the PL. In that prism, to quote him, his performance at Forest just carried on the crap at Spurs. Therefore there was no where for him to hide.

 

[johnola]

I think he is done in the premier league unless he brings someone up. Cannot see how he would get a team out of the championship (unless it is down).

We will see him in charge of Kuwait or the Island of goats next.

 

[DeanoAustin]

People paid £60+ to attend that Brighton game, so I’m not sure it can be described as meaningless. I’d long since stopped attending while he was in charge, but I’d have been mighty tinkled off had I paid to go.

Anyhow, that’s the end of him in the PL. Maybe the Greek league next, which feels a more natural fit.

I was one of those. It cost me flights, hotel and a day off work as well as the match ticket. I was absolutely disgusted watching it. But in the context of a competitive football game, it was pretty meaningless and I understand why it happened as it did.

It was unprofessional, in my opinion it was wrong. But he didn’t “throw the game.”

 

[Robspur12]

I don’t think it is semantics. People should be accountable for what they say. The poster said “he threw games”. That means he lost them deliberately. That’s a pretty serious accusation.

He prioritised the Europa League. He did it to an extent I’m still not comfortable with. However, I absolutely believe that he always tried to win and certainly didn’t deliberately lose. There is enough to criticise Ange about without throwing false accusations at him that question his character and integrity.

We’ll have to agree to disagree mate. He had a choice to play those games in the league properly and he didn’t, for weeks. For me whether he meant to or not he’s mindset not to prepare properly is effectively “throwing games.”

 

[Grays_1890]

People paid £60+ to attend that Brighton game, so I’m not sure it can be described as meaningless. I’d long since stopped attending while he was in charge, but I’d have been mighty p issed off had I paid to go.

Anyhow, that’s the end of him in the PL. Maybe the Greek league next, which feels a more natural fit.

He won a trophy and will ne forever loved by me for it

He also oversaw a horrific league campaign that wasn't also just about lack of quality, our tactics were suicidal.

Both exist in the real world

 

[johnola]

I don’t think it is semantics. People should be accountable for what they say. The poster said “he threw games”. That means he lost them deliberately. That’s a pretty serious accusation.

He prioritised the Europa League. He did it to an extent I’m still not comfortable with. However, I absolutely believe that he always tried to win and certainly didn’t deliberately lose. There is enough to criticise Ange about without throwing false accusations at him that question his character and integrity.

He played a better formation in the Europa but it aas still skin of his teeth- Elfborg with goals from the youth team etc.