Ange in or out?

[Bedfordspurs]

Also look how long they gave Ole and ETH, a manger who actually knows what they are doing will get years.

Hard to tell under the new owner

 

[El Dante]

He's good. Although he's Conte level bore fest when things are working. A 3 CBs clown shoe too

What’s wrong with playing three centre backs? I don’t want the boring football but I’m not against three centre backs. Can push one into midfield when in possession. And the next manager I want us to play quick football, not mess around passing back and sideways. Just quick decisive plays and a centre back that can carry the ball forwards could help with that, would be like a libero.

 

[Gutter Boy]

What’s wrong with playing three centre backs? I don’t want the boring football but I’m not against three centre backs. Can push one into midfield when in possession. And the next manager I want us to play quick football, not mess around passing back and sideways. Just quick decisive plays and a centre back that can carry the ball forwards could help with that, would be like a libero.

It just means you are default outnumbered in midfield and you have a weaker ballplayer on the pitch. Having a DM occasionally slot in between two CBs if both FBs push up is much more effective. CBs may be able to pass, but i dont recall one who can receive the ball under a tight press and pivot 180 to move the ball on - that's a specialist role

 

[DubSpur]

It just means you are default outnumbered in midfield and you have a weaker ballplayer on the pitch. Having a DM occasionally slot in between two CBs if both FBs push up is much more effective. CBs may be able to pass, but i dont recall one who can receive the ball under a tight press and pivot 180 to move the ball on - that's a specialist role

It doesn't mean you are outnumbered in midfield. 3-5-2 means you should have more in midfield. There shouldn't be any need for a CB to pivot 180 to make a pass, one of the 3 midfielders should be doing that. Like with any system it's how it's implemented and the intent behind it.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It doesn't mean you are outnumbered in midfield. 3-5-2 means you should have more in midfield. There shouldn't be any need for a CB to pivot 180 to make a pass, one of the 3 midfielders should be doing that. Like with any system it's how it's implemented and the intent behind it.

GB won't budge in this one!

Formations these days are more like a starting position, if you look at the fluidity of a lot of teams and freeze the picture...they're rarely in their stated formation. Although often working within a framework and to instruction.

 

[lurker of old]

To get back to Ang in or out, I'm not sure that I have ever seen a Spurs team as disorganised and also as poor as we were on Sunday. Maybe when Middlesborough beat us 3 nil under Hoddle? OK, so it's the second 11. But surely the minimum we can expect is that the team have a defensive shape which makes us hard to beat. I don't see how anyone could defend Ange after that mess, it was a real insult to the fans. And when he goes we need a total clearout of the coaching staff - in my view they are all contaminated by the mediocrity we have been seeing week after week after week.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It doesn't mean you are outnumbered in midfield. 3-5-2 means you should have more in midfield. There shouldn't be any need for a CB to pivot 180 to make a pass, one of the 3 midfielders should be doing that. Like with any system it's how it's implemented and the intent behind it.

Has anyone actually done it well. Since Venables at Euro 1996 anyway? That worked because everyone played 2 up; but now everyone goes 1 up and two WFs, it doesn't work in a progressive sense at all.

It gets used in defensive leagues in Italy, but its de facto 5-4-1 there.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Has anyone actually done it well. Since Venables at Euro 1996 anyway? That worked because everyone played 2 up; but now everyone goes 1 up and two WFs, it doesn't work in a progressive sense at all.

It gets used in defensive leagues in Italy, but its de facto 5-4-1 there.

Why are you ignoring Inter? Are you saying they are over-defensive/boring too?

 

[DubSpur]

Has anyone actually done it well. Since Venables at Euro 1996 anyway? That worked because everyone played 2 up; but now everyone goes 1 up and two WFs, it doesn't work in a progressive sense at all.

It gets used in defensive leagues in Italy, but its de facto 5-4-1 there.

fudging hell, nobody done it well since Venables and England?? You really have your head in the sand. If you want to stick to international football as a more recent example of a team doing it well at that level Germany under Low used it a lot and won the world cup using it.

 

[Baleforce]

Conte when he won the league at Chelsea.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

GB won't budge in this one!

Don't say you weren't warned.

 

[Raziel]

To get back to Ang in or out, I'm not sure that I have ever seen a Spurs team as disorganised and also as poor as we were on Sunday. Maybe when Middlesborough beat us 3 nil under Hoddle? OK, so it's the second 11. But surely the minimum we can expect is that the team have a defensive shape which makes us hard to beat. I don't see how anyone could defend Ange after that mess, it was a real insult to the fans. And when he goes we need a total clearout of the coaching staff - in my view they are all contaminated by the mediocrity we have been seeing week after week after week.

We are playing pragmatic football, 4-2-4 with 2 pivots in Europe and the remnants of Ange-ball in PL. Add in, massive rotation and the fact that there is nothing to play for, no player is motivated for the league, you get the mess you see week in, week out.

Ange will deserve huge credit for the cup win if it happens, but he has already proven his methods don't translate to league and/or managing multiple fronts at same time.

Might be an interesting perspective of this is really the first time in 20 years we have really dropped out of any kind of league position contention and yet might win cup? has it just been as simple as overprioritizing league?

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Might be an interesting perspective of this is really the first time in 20 years we have really dropped out of any kind of league position contention and yet might win cup? has it just been as simple as overprioritizing league?

A logical pattern of thinking in a NeW Year (club) discussion would probably be...

The league doesn't look salvageable.
Especially with ongoing injury issues.
The EL is almost impossible to get knocked out of in the group phase
Aim for top 8 and your 6 games from a final.
The EL is pretty weak due to the benefit of no CL drop ins.
And now in hindsight....who have we played that might be a hurdle... Frankfurt...that's it.

We are just lucky that the bottom three in the league have helped us out massively
ie there's never been any true PL pressure/worry

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Conte when he won the league at Chelsea.

Inter Milan right now

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Has anyone actually done it well. Since Venables at Euro 1996 anyway? That worked because everyone played 2 up; but now everyone goes 1 up and two WFs, it doesn't work in a progressive sense at all.

It gets used in defensive leagues in Italy, but its de facto 5-4-1 there.

Poch and Conte have had us playing well. In fact I've just watched a video of us pummelling Arsenal 3-0 playing a 3-4-3:

............................Lloris

.......Sanchez........Dier.........Davies

Royal.....Hojbjerg.....Bentancur....Sessegnon

.........Kulu.............Kane...........Son

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Poch and Conte have had us playing well. In fact I've just watched a video of us pummelling Arsenal 3-0 playing a 3-4-3:

............................Lloris

.......Sanchez........Dier.........Davies

Royal.....Hojbjerg.....Bentancur....Sessegnon

.........Kulu.............Kane...........Son

3 at the back can be brilliant
Atlanta did it when Romero was there and they were very attacking
It down to the variables of the players and the manager

 

[Muttley]

3 at the back can be brilliant
Atlanta did it when Romero was there and they were very attacking
It down to the variables of the players and the manager

I do agree though that many teams have had a load of success with it.

I think the key point was made above about playing 2 wingbacks and 2 wide forwards in the same 3 at the back system. For me, that is the key flaw. When Poch moved to it, we slotted Dier to the right of Toby but we were well stacked in midfield behind Kane. From memory, it was Son that moved to the bench allowing Eriksen and Dele to support midfield and attack.

Conte achieved it with Barella and Eriksen around Brozovic, with Dybala in the 10 role playing with Lukaku. They had Perisic in the LWB role that season. His 3-4-3 didn't work in the PL so well, although we did get CL with it. That system was all about zones though and then Bents got injured and it seemed to fall to pieces.

Worth considering how many talented "centre backs" Pep has managed to get into his teams over the years. He'll have Stones or Akanji in midfield with Ake, Gvardiol or previously Laporte at LB. I think I counted 5 or 6 one day. That was Conte's downfall. He didn't even have 3 talented centre halves when he tried to implement a system at Spurs. Nobody would attribute 3 at the back with Pep but I bet you'd see it all the time if we look closer. Pep loves to collect ball playing centre halves.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

3 at the back can be brilliant
Atlanta did it when Romero was there and they were very attacking
It down to the variables of the players and the manager

Also shows that players fans dismiss as substandard can be very effective in the right line up with a decent coach. Emerson Royal and Hojbjerg were far more decent squad players than fans give them credit for and I hate the hate that Davies and Dier seem to get on here too....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I do agree though that many teams have had a load of success with it.

I think the key point was made above about playing 2 wingbacks and 2 wide forwards in the same 3 at the back system. For me, that is the key flaw. When Poch moved to it, we slotted Dier to the right of Toby but we were well stacked in midfield behind Kane. From memory, it was Son that moved to the bench allowing Eriksen and Dele to support midfield and attack.

Conte achieved it with Barella and Eriksen around Brozovic, with Dybala in the 10 role playing with Lukaku. They had Perisic in the LWB role that season. His 3-4-3 didn't work in the PL so well, although we did get CL with it. That system was all about zones though and then Bents got injured and it seemed to fall to pieces.

Worth considering how many talented "centre backs" Pep has managed to get into his teams over the years. He'll have Stones or Akanji in midfield with Ake, Gvardiol or previously Laporte at LB. I think I counted 5 or 6 one day. That was Conte's downfall. He didn't even have 3 talented centre halves when he tried to implement a system at Spurs. Nobody would attribute 3 at the back with Pep but I bet you'd see it all the time if we look closer. Pep loves to collect ball playing centre halves.

Pep now plays games with 4/5 Cbs but they play all over including DM and left back
Managers can be flexible if the options are there and they see it /need it