ENIC

[Legohamster]

Arsenal didn't sign Rice after securing top 4 they did it after their first 2nd place finish. If you want to compare to Arsenal have a look at the calibre of player they were buying before they got back in to the CL.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

We have a similar revenue to them these days and so I expect to see us operating similarly to them in the market - but you need to compare like for like not us during a rebuild to them when adding the finishing touches to a side already challenging for the title.


Not something that hasn't been explained multiple times before so I don't expect any of the above to register.


***Edit***

Seems they did go reasonably big in the summer they finished 5th - some reason i had it in my mind that had a year finishing 4th before going on to finishing 2nd.

Arsenal also used their academy really well

Either as first team/squad players or selling them to raise funds

Something we haven't really done for a few years.

 

[Grays_1890]

Winning at football is indeed hard.
But you can at the very least try your best in making your attempts

In fairness though there is a nuanced middle ground with it where the reality is, the board/owners have put us in more positions to win things than many that came before them.......a point which can be made honestly whilst admitting they have also made mistakes along the way.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Arsenal didn't sign Rice after securing top 4 they did it after their first 2nd place finish. If you want to compare to Arsenal have a look at the calibre of player they were buying before they got back in to the CL.

Eh? Arsenal's first 2nd place finish WAS when they secured top 4 for the first time in years

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-arsenal/alletransfers/verein/11

We have a similar revenue to them these days and so I expect to see us operating similarly to them in the market - but you need to compare like for like not us during a rebuild to them when adding the finishing touches to a side already challenging for the title.

Their summer when they bough Rice is equivalent to the summer we had when Conte was our manager. That is, the summer after top 4 had been secured for first time in a few years. Actually the summer they secured Rice was the first time they had got top 4 in a lot longer: wehen they bought Rice they;d secured top 4 for tyhe first time in 7 seasons, whilst that Cone summer was the first time in 3 season for us.....Again, chalk and cheese..

Not something that hasn't been explained multiple times before so I don't expect any of the above to register.


***Edit***

Seems they did go reasonably big in the summer they finished 5th - some reason i had it in my mind that had a year finishing 4th before going on to finishing 2nd.

Again chalk and cheese: see their summer 2022 and compare it to ours last year...

 

[glorygloryeze]

In fairness though there is a nuanced middle ground with it where the reality is, the board/owners have put us in more positions to win things than many that came before them.......a point which can be made honestly whilst admitting they have also made mistakes along the way.

In over twenty years of their ownership their ceiling is very clear: when things are set-up for us to really push on, they revert to type and still act like we are still where we were 20 years ago - like last summer and everything before that which led to Ange getting the job in the first place.

It has also to be remembered how lucky they were to have a once-in-a-generational striking talent fall into our laps from our own academy. Again, i question their ambition to REALLY push through and use that advantage to get us to the very top (as opposed to just being happy to get top 4 and all the money that comes with that).
It will now cost us much more to get near that previous level.

In twenty plus years there's probably as little footballing nous amongst the ownership as there was when they started

 

[billyiddo]

Arsenal also used their academy really well

Either as first team/squad players or selling them to raise funds

Something we haven't really done for a few years.

Yes and they continue to do so.

Along with young players bought to develop they have shown that putting long term foundations in place is a route to (near) success - we are treading a similar path and will need to follow it up with here and now quality at the right time.

I think you can compare Arteta & Arsenals growth to our period under Poch - a coming together of top class academy products, players signed with potential coming good and smart buys working out, the difference being that when we needed to invest in the marquee signings we was not able or willing to (yes it's boring and no one wants to hear it but the stadium build being the reason why)

I think if people actually looked at what we've been doing these past couple of years wrt squad building they would see that we are getting all those foundation pieces in place again, we are seeing the academy producing exciting players, we have been making some smart signings and buying up some very highly regarded young players - next step is to get a manager who can bring that together and then when we're back at the right end of the table and performing well we then go in to the market and get those top class ready made players

 

[Lilbaz]

We struck gold selling Bale for a record fee at he time. We know hat then happened.
We could also say we struck gold by selling Kane, a 30 year old, for quite a large fee given he had only a year left. Again, where did we "strike gold" in the same way from a footballing perspective (rather than just a profit one)

I said in the other post they spent wisely. Nobody is arguing we couldn't have spent the money better.
That would be on comoli and paratici/lange though wouldn't it?

 

[Lilbaz]

Who spent more on wages though?
Yes, yes, i know people will say "changing the goalposts" but again this is the reality: we are happy to spend 60-80 on the likes of Richarlison, Solanke etc. But the wages that thoseplayers demand will be dwarfed by who the likes of Liverpool spend the same transfer fees on

Are gravenbach and szoboszlai wages any higher than richi and maddison? Maddison on £170k a week allegedly. Richi about £140k.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Yes and they continue to do so.

Along with young players bought to develop they have shown that putting long term foundations in place is a route to (near) success - we are treading a similar path and will need to follow it up with here and now quality at the right time.

I think you can compare Arteta & Arsenals growth to our period under Poch - a coming together of top class academy products, players signed with potential coming good and smart buys working out, the difference being that when we needed to invest in the marquee signings we was not able or willing to (yes it's boring and no one wants to hear it but the stadium build being the reason why)

I think if people actually looked at what we've been doing these past couple of years wrt squad building they would see that we are getting all those foundation pieces in place again, we are seeing the academy producing exciting players, we have been making some smart signings and buying up some very highly regarded young players - next step is to get a manager who can bring that together and then when we're back at the right end of the table and performing well we then go in to the market and get those top class ready made players

I understand why you think the last sentence will be the case, but history consistently says it will NOT happen.
Just looking at the transfer window with Conte in summer 2022 says it all (e.g., instead of getting the defensive players most in football know Conte needs, we chased and got Djed Spence and Clement Lenglet..)

 

[glorygloryeze]

Are gravenbach and szoboszlai wages any higher than richi and maddison? Maddison on £170k a week allegedly. Richi about £140k.

I would say they probably are, but am happy to corrected.
What is Solanke on?

 

[Grays_1890]

In over twenty years of their ownership their ceiling is very clear: when things are set-up for us to really push on, they revert to type and still act like we are still where we were 20 years ago - like last summer and everything before that which led to Ange getting the job in the first place.

It has also to be remembered how lucky they were to have a once-in-a-generational striking talent fall into our laps from our own academy. Again, i question their ambition to REALLY push through and use that advantage to get us to the very top (as opposed to just being happy to get top 4 and all the money that comes with that).
It will now cost us much more to get near that previous level.

In twenty plus years there's probably as little footballing nous amongst the ownership as there was when they started

Pushing on and at times not having the money to, before the stadium move where was that money coming from? The owner? It wasn't in the club at the time.

But that aside we have been in more business ends of cups, SFs and Finals than any period in my life time, if players and managers can't walk through the door on those occasions then the fault there is shared IMO.

They have made many a mistake as owners, but giving us a higher platform to succeed is not one of them IMO

 

[glorygloryeze]

I said in the other post they spent wisely. Nobody is arguing we couldn't have spent the money better.
That would be on comoli and paratici/lange though wouldn't it?

The wage negotiations are almost certainly set by Levy/ENIC.
Even recently, remember the whole story of Levy going out to Munich to try and convince Tel to join us?

 

[Lilbaz]

I would say they probably are, but am happy to corrected.
What is Solanke on?

Not according to this. First hit on google search though.

2024-2025 Liverpool FC Salaries and Contracts

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances

www.capology.com

Comparison

Tottenham Hotspur 2025 Wages | Player & Team totals

Tottenham Hotspur's total wage bill per year is £117,624,780 and £2,262,015 per week | Search the most comprehensive salary and contract database.

salarysport.com

 

[billyiddo]

Eh? Arsenal's first 2nd place finish WAS when they secured top 4 for the first time in years



Their summer when they bough Rice is equivalent to the summer we had when Conte was our manager. That is, the summer after top 4 had been secured for first time in a few years. Actually the summer they secured Rice was the first time they had got top 4 in a lot longer: wehen they bought Rice they;d secured top 4 for tyhe first time in 7 seasons, whilst that Cone summer was the first time in 3 season for us.....Again, chalk and cheese..



Again chalk and cheese: see their summer 2022 and compare it to ours last year...

It was but it wasn't just 'securing top 4' was it it was a 2nd place finish and title challenge that they very nearly got over the line v an exceptional City team, eg their team/squad was more complete than ours was at your chosen comparison point, and 3 years or so in the making - Conte like Mourinho before him was us flogging what remained of the Poch team essentially just Kane & Son trying to eek it out rather than facing up to going through a medium-long term rebuild.

Mourinho through to Conte was one big mistake and I've always said Poch had it right with the need for a rebuild, which we never truly committed to until post-Conte

 

[glorygloryeze]

Pushing on and at times not having the money to, before the stadium move where was that money coming from? The owner? It wasn't in the club at the time.

But that aside we have been in more business ends of cups, SFs and Finals than any period in my life time, if players and managers can't walk through the door on those occasions then the fault there is shared IMO.

They have made many a mistake as owners, but giving us a higher platform to succeed is not one of them IMO

I would say it was the managers employed that gave us a higher platform to succeed and it was often said managers who failed often (not always) because they came up against peers who had received better backing.

Money has been flowing since the new stadium but we're steadily getting worse. The fact it seems the board are looking at the possibility of going back for Poch says things deep down haven't changed

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not according to this. First hit on google search though.

2024-2025 Liverpool FC Salaries and Contracts

Capology | Football Salaries & Finances

www.capology.com

Comparison

Tottenham Hotspur 2025 Wages | Player & Team totals

Tottenham Hotspur's total wage bill per year is £117,624,780 and £2,262,015 per week | Search the most comprehensive salary and contract database.

salarysport.com

Gravenberch, Mac Allister and Szobolslai are all on more than Solanke, our main striker....same with Richarlison

 

[billyiddo]

I understand why you think the last sentence will be the case, but history consistently says it will NOT happen.
Just looking at the transfer window with Conte in summer 2022 says it all (e.g., instead of getting the defensive players most in football know Conte needs, we chased and got Djed Spence and Clement Lenglet..)

No, history does not say that won't happen because it's only post stadium build that we have begun to see us making the sort of money that can make the difference and since then we have been fighting other battles (see previous post regarding foundations and not committing to a rebuild)

 

[harr1984]

Yes and they continue to do so.

Along with young players bought to develop they have shown that putting long term foundations in place is a route to (near) success - we are treading a similar path and will need to follow it up with here and now quality at the right time.

I think you can compare Arteta & Arsenals growth to our period under Poch - a coming together of top class academy products, players signed with potential coming good and smart buys working out, the difference being that when we needed to invest in the marquee signings we was not able or willing to (yes it's boring and no one wants to hear it but the stadium build being the reason why)

I think if people actually looked at what we've been doing these past couple of years wrt squad building they would see that we are getting all those foundation pieces in place again, we are seeing the academy producing exciting players, we have been making some smart signings and buying up some very highly regarded young players - next step is to get a manager who can bring that together and then when we're back at the right end of the table and performing well we then go in to the market and get those top class ready made players

That's fair and I will always credit Levy and co for giving us the platform to become bigger than we were and to some extent compete with the big boys. But it is the last part you refer to that I would remain sceptical about - the getting in top class ready made players. When have we ever done that? Some good PL proven players yes, but the top class players require the top wages to boot and I have not seen us stretch ourselves to do that and IMO this is what has prevented us from kicking on in the past. If the board are prepared to go that extra mile and supplement the clearly talented youngsters we have with a couple of top class players then it would make a huge difference to the team, and show that there is real intent at the club. But until they do, I think it is understandable for people to be sceptical as they have not shown such actions in all their years here....

 

[glorygloryeze]

It was but it wasn't just 'securing top 4' was it it was a 2nd place finish and title challenge that they very nearly got over the line v an exceptional City team, eg their team/squad was more complete than ours was at your chosen comparison point, and 3 years or so in the making - Conte like Mourinho before him was us flogging what remained of the Poch team essentially just Kane & Son trying to eek it out rather than facing up to going through a medium-long term rebuild.

Mourinho through to Conte was one big mistake and I've always said Poch had it right with the need for a rebuild, which we never truly committed to until post-Conte

Conte securing top 4, whether by 'flogging the last bits of Poch's team' or whatever, was an achievement, especially given where we were when he joined. It could be said it was a similar achievement to Arsenal's second place.
Regardless, Arsenal showed ambition, we haven't ever showed similar regardless of circumstance.
The board hired Conte. He diudn';t just land in our laps. You know what hiring Conte means, or at least people who have basic knowledge of football, know it means you need to keep investing big to at least try to push on. And that he needs bonfide wing-back options.

Mourinho throug to Conte (and maybe now) shows the owners want to be seen with the big name managers but are not prepared (or don't know how) to actually wlak the walk with said managers

 

[Lilbaz]

Gravenberch, Mac Allister and Szobolslai are all on more than Solanke, our main striker....same with Richarlison

Richarlison is £175k? Or did you mean he's on more than solanke?

Not sure what you are getting at though. If we paid solanke more we'd be better?

 

[glorygloryeze]

No, history does not say that won't happen because it's only post stadium build that we have begun to see us making the sort of money that can make the difference and since then we have been fighting other battles (see previous post regarding foundations and not committing to a rebuild)

Ok, if we, somehow, secure CL via an EL win, do you honestly expect the club this summer to "go in to the market and get those top class ready made players"?