Just as most of us can criticise the decisions of many businesses when not under the constraints they are and risking our own .only on it.
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ENIC
- Thread starter mattls
- Start date
thfcsteff
Tony Galvin
Yes, true, and there is also a 'but'... we had several opportunities to potentially make relatively low risk moves to support a manager who had us knocking hard on a door at a few specific moments. Despite all the dominance of a few pointed out, there we were, regular top 4, most points in the Prem across two seasons, so so close yet we
refused to see the moment to speculate. It was possible to break that cycle IMO, we were right there. We've discussed it many times. If you want to go back to '92, it's well worth asking how one of the architects of the Premier League TV age managed to fudge it up for us so much.
I think the successful clubs we are trying to compete with have all likely had points at which similar mistakes made at higher levels of club decision making have cost them success too - the difference between them and us is that their financial advantage has allowed them to come back again and again until it they got it right - we don't/didn't have that luxury.
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Muttley
Kasey Keller
I agree with this. I'm hoping we are that club now. Match day revenues, NFL, F1 karting, pop concerts, business conventions etc all add up to the new formula that we should be that club that don't go into crisis just because we spent £60m on Tanguy and it didn't work out.
Saying that, I'd be shocked if we have any more than £50m net spending this summer if we don't win the EL.
Bedfordspurs
Joe Kinnear
Liverpool were on that place with Andy Carroll for example.
They got lucky and clever with the Countinho sale
glorygloryeze
Steffen Freund
Appreciate the detail and effort you went to in replying.
But my perspective is really quite simple: in the same way that this ownership really try and go for 'max spec' wrt to the stadium and related commercial/infrastructure ventures (NFL facilities, training ground, hotel, Skywalk attraction etc), do you think they put the same effort for the football team to be the best that we can be?
When was the last time you saw them make a footballing decision and you thought "wow, what great leadership, they are really wanting us to push for the very top"?
You mention the likes of the "traditional top 4" as a handicap for us: IIRC didn't Liverpool nearly go bust after the Hicks and Gillett nonsense in 2010? After that period in the early 2010s year on year we were hijacking players they were going for because we were in a better place. How have they come back and usurped us: is that because they are simply Liverpool and had all that history? Was them losing a lot of money in nearly going bankrupt not relevant to all the supposed money and cache they'd built up over us prior to that? Were we financially still behind them at that point or near bankruptcy?
Or did they came back and overtake us because their ownership identified a top manager who was available to rebuild them AND then backed said manager? Football ambition AND foresight: when was the last time you looked at our owners and they made you think they had that? Also, remember Liverpool's owners sacked Dalglish after he won the league cup (their first trophy in 6 years) because he didn't also make the champions league (and that they finished a pitiful 8th place) and all the money that offers.
When Liverpool saved themselves from bankruptcy they dusted themselves down and strived to get back to the top. We still seem to list our near bankruptcy as an excuse for not looking at our owners lack of ambition.
Ok, let's look at Arsenal, another 'traditional top 4' club: do you remember how low they got when Wenger left and then Arteta joined? Yes, they won an FA Cup but league-wise they were awful (obviously not as bad as we are atm, but still nowhere near CL or title-challenging levels).
What has happened that they are now constantly top 2 in the league and leave us to choke on their dust, league-wise?
Is it by luck? Is Arteta just a genius?
Or have their owners identified a manager they wanted AND backed him? Remember that great evening in May 2022 when we beat them 3-0 after Rob Holding's great turn hat led to them fumbling top 4 when we snatched it from them? If you looked at the two squads then how is it they now have a squad depth and quality that vastly exceeds ours when at most we were at similar levels then, plus they'd been out of the CL for all the times we had been regularly in it pre-Covid? Bear in mind that this was after hat period when covid shut down our finances after the new stadium (and covid shut down everyone's finances anyway, but still).
Arsenal in 2022 finished 5th behind us: look at who they bought in the summer after that happened: Gabriel Jesus and Zinchenko amongst some others; compare that to last summer when we had just finished 5th and had narrowly missed out on 4th...chalk and cheese.
Again, is it just a case of their owners having more nous AND ambition?
When they secured top 4 they went out and paid top dollar for Declan Rice; when was the last time we did the equivalent of that?
That smelt of ambition. Our owners don't seem to ever show the same.
Liverpool. Hicks and gillet missed a payment. This was during the financial crash. The banks needed money. So seized the club and sold it forc what they were owed.
The new owners got it at a bargain price allowing them to invest.
They then struck gold selling coutinho and getting klopp as their manager.
Gazza
Jimmy Neighbour
They spent the money wisely and backed a manager with pedigree.
They spent the wisely. If you think they backed klopp then you have to think enic backed our managers as we spent more than them net on players.
Arsenal didn't sign Rice after securing top 4 they did it after their first 2nd place finish. If you want to compare to Arsenal have a look at the calibre of player they were buying before they got back in to the CL.
We have a similar revenue to them these days and so I expect to see us operating similarly to them in the market - but you need to compare like for like not us during a rebuild to them when adding the finishing touches to a side already challenging for the title.
Not something that hasn't been explained multiple times before so I don't expect any of the above to register.
***Edit***
Seems they did go reasonably big in the summer they finished 5th - some reason i had it in my mind that had a year finishing 4th before going on to finishing 2nd.
We have a similar revenue to them these days and so I expect to see us operating similarly to them in the market - but you need to compare like for like not us during a rebuild to them when adding the finishing touches to a side already challenging for the title.
Not something that hasn't been explained multiple times before so I don't expect any of the above to register.
***Edit***
Seems they did go reasonably big in the summer they finished 5th - some reason i had it in my mind that had a year finishing 4th before going on to finishing 2nd.
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Muttley
Kasey Keller
I think the John Henry Pool story is a good one actually. Very experienced exec of clubs like Red Sox and brought all that expertise to the PL environment. Built out an extensive and competent leadership group to get behind Klopp. They even started with a transatlantic exec whose job was to represent LFC at the FSG group level. They also focused on the Anfield regeneration along the journey.
I do think Levy eventually looked at clubs like Pool and saw that he was being left behind. I also think we need to be very careful when we start slating these new leaders that join our club. In my opinion, they are what is required. We just need to find our Klopp next.
I do think Levy eventually looked at clubs like Pool and saw that he was being left behind. I also think we need to be very careful when we start slating these new leaders that join our club. In my opinion, they are what is required. We just need to find our Klopp next.
metalgear
Andy Thompson
arsenal rebuilt was due to vinny v who works for levy now
would you be against fabregas replacing ange ?
Yes, he's a clam