Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[Silly McSilly Face]

Tax capital gain at the same rate as income tax (18% to 40%) and clamp down on the use of trust funds to reduce income tax avoidance for starters.

If you do that you'll simply hit the attractiveness of the investment industry in the UK, which generates huge amounts of revenue for the government. And this goes to a wider point around the complications of the tax system and a lack of transparency around the interconnected workings of it.

You mention taxing big business for example, but corporation tax is particularly sensitive to "laffer curve" as it is a tax on profit and businesses can choose not to report as much profit (basically a higher corporation tax rate encourages use of non-taxable gross profit for investment and a lower corporation tax rate encourages a greater use for net profit and distribution to investors/shareholders). Corporation tax revenues therefore tend to rise with lower rates, and fall with higher rates. But these rises and falls may lead to rises and falls elsewhere within the tax system as the economic activity is encouraged to shift elsewhere.

And so people have got to stop seeing taxation as a method to raise money and more as a method of controlling economic activity (lower taxes effectively mean there's more money in the economy and more economic activity and this may lead to more tax revenue overall. Governments have been raising taxes recently to take money out of the economy and stop people and businesses spending to push down on inflationary pressures but for example the employer's NI raise has led to falling recruitment and investment/expansion plans and that has started to impact on government revenue already - hence the "£15 billion black hole" thats been created).

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Renewables are the cheapest form of power. New nuclear is about 2-4 times the price of renewables now (more for SMRs) and only heading in one direction. Also renewables can be deployed in a fraction of the time it takes to get a nuclear plant up and running, and time is of the essence for the climate now. Anything being built now won't stand a chance in the market by the time it comes online. Nuclear is just too expensive to deploy and will have huge problems operating in a warming world (see France's reactors in the '22 heatwave).

Renewables are not that cheap they are currently heavily subsidised in terms of cost. To produce the same energy as a nuclear reactor you have to have a solar farm about the size of a city. Think about the materials and maintenance cost involved in that.

 

[Rorschach]

Renewables are not that cheap they are currently heavily subsidised in terms of cost. To produce the same energy as a nuclear reactor you have to have a solar farm about the size of a city. Think about the materials and maintenance cost involved in that.

Per MWH renewables are much cheaper, with onshore wind being the cheapest at the moment. PV next on the list and will likely overtake onshore wind in the not-too-distant future. And these industries are still very much on the learning curve, so getting cheaper by the day. Nuclear on the other hand, is going the opposite direction. The cost per MWH hour is up about 60% in the last 10 years. These are levelised prices without subsidies. There is only one winner here.

To tie into your point about the real estate used for PV. Needless to say PV can be added almost anywhere and does not need to be all colocated. I would argue the distributed nature of PV adds to its benefits; there is no single point of failure, which is more important than ever with the changing climate. And the fact that I can create my own power, the democratisation of electrical power in effect, annoys the FF industry no end which is why they lobby against renewables continuously.

Rather than derailing this politics thread further I can take this up with you in the climate thread later if you like.

 

[Gutter Boy]

If you do that you'll simply hit the attractiveness of the investment industry in the UK, which generates huge amounts of revenue for the government. And this goes to a wider point around the complications of the tax system and a lack of transparency around the interconnected workings of it.

You mention taxing big business for example, but corporation tax is particularly sensitive to "laffer curve" as it is a tax on profit and businesses can choose not to report as much profit (basically a higher corporation tax rate encourages use of non-taxable gross profit for investment and a lower corporation tax rate encourages a greater use for net profit and distribution to investors/shareholders). Corporation tax revenues therefore tend to rise with lower rates, and fall with higher rates. But these rises and falls may lead to rises and falls elsewhere within the tax system as the economic activity is encouraged to shift elsewhere.

And so people have got to stop seeing taxation as a method to raise money and more as a method of controlling economic activity (lower taxes effectively mean there's more money in the economy and more economic activity and this may lead to more tax revenue overall. Governments have been raising taxes recently to take money out of the economy and stop people and businesses spending to push down on inflationary pressures but for example the employer's NI raise has led to falling recruitment and investment/expansion plans and that has started to impact on government revenue already - hence the "£15 billion black hole" thats been created).

That's just the great myth of trickle down thought isnt it? Let the rich keep getting excessively richer and the 99% will get their crumbs

 

[Grays_1890]

Food will be the first one to impact the global north at a level that really registers, in my opinion. We've had breadbasket failures in recent years, but if there was to be multiple breadbasket failures simultaneous the brick will hit the wind turbine. And it will happen at some point. We are only three meals.....

Exactly that, one bad summer from alot of the world to be starving. Also he mentioned (and I admit its hazy now) but all a shortage of space needed to operate in to fulfil demand so unless they develop gardening upwards and vastly then the issues are there.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

That's just the great myth of trickle down thought isnt it? Let the rich keep getting excessively richer and the 99% will get their crumbs

No it isn't about trickle down, it's about the fact that you can't stop clever people from making money and obtaining resources. Attempts to create an equal society is founded on the myth that all people are equal. They're not.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Exactly that, one bad summer from alot of the world to be starving. Also he mentioned (and I admit its hazy now) but all a shortage of space needed to operate in to fulfil demand so unless they develop gardening upwards and vastly then the issues are there.

It doesn't help that the population keeps increasing. It's not so much that resources are inadequate. The climate was actually warmer in the middle ages. They know that vineyards were common in England and that arrable land in middle east and africa was scarse - but there were far fewer people then. The main environmental and resource pressure is human population expansion.

 

[Rorschach]

Exactly that, one bad summer from alot of the world to be starving. Also he mentioned (and I admit its hazy now) but all a shortage of space needed to operate in to fulfil demand so unless they develop gardening upwards and vastly then the issues are there.

Going vertical is a bit of a fad, is what I've read. We have the space but don't utilise it to its full advantage. Ireland is a big cow farm, for example, while Holland is the 2nd biggest exporter of agri products in the world. Vastly different agricultural practices in both places.
I'm just getting into growing veg myself this last year so getting more interested in this stuff.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Going vertical is a bit of a fad, is what I've read. We have the space but don't utilise it to its full advantage. Ireland is a big cow farm, for example, while Holland is the 2nd biggest exporter of agri products in the world. Vastly different agricultural practices in both places.
I'm just getting into growing veg myself this last year so getting more interested in this stuff.

Our population density is much higher. Also the west and north half of the country is uplands, so not much use for anything other sheep farming (which you cant do intensively)

 

[Grays_1890]

It doesn't help that the population keeps increasing. It's not so much that resources are inadequate. The climate was actually warmer in the middle ages. They know that vineyards were common in England and that arrable land in middle east and africa was scarse - but there were far fewer people then. The main environmental and resource pressure is human population expansion.

We quite, the worlds overpopulated by some numbers, also human habits are comparably disgusting when you think about consumption across the board and its all interlinked with pressures elsewhere, we eat and drink ourselves to death now which adds pressures on society.

 

[Rorschach]

Our population density is much higher. Also the west and north half of the country is uplands, so not much use for anything other sheep farming (which you cant do intensively)

I'm not a fan of sheep farming either. It is ecologically destructive on a massive scale. Those farmers should be paid to rewild the land instead.

 

[markysimmo]

Looks interesting

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Agree. And then rejoin the single market .

If it was just trade and not a political movement fine.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Looks interesting

View attachment 19355

Haidt is very good at exploring ideas and making it readable.

I've just started this.....just as relatable to adults, me thinks.

 

[Silly McSilly Face]

Haidt is very good at exploring ideas and making it readable.

I've just started this.....just as relatable to adults, me thinks.

View attachment 19357

Haidt is very good at exploring ideas and making it readable.

I've just started this.....just as relatable to adults, me thinks.

View attachment 19357

Not read this but yeah the re-wiring of thought process in childhood and expectations for adulthood has created a diseased society.

I myself am on a repeat prescription for citalopram as is my wife. Pretty much 90% of my friends are on some form of anti depressant or counselling/other mental health treatment.

We've created an impossible society/life whereas just a generation ago both my mum and my mother in law gave up work to have and bring up kids, then went back to work when their kids were teenagers.

Now the expectation is that women have full time successful careers whilst at the same time the expectation for men (and what women find attractive in men) hasn't shifted, so you've now got a situation where young girls are told (you need to get a good job and climb the ladder, find a good hard working man to take care of you and not a sponger/layabout and have kids and be a good mum. While at same time boys are told you need to get a good job, earn enough time provide for your wife and family, but you're a modern man now you need to do your share of the house chores and looking after the kids.

So basically you've got all of my generation and beyond with both parents working full time in committed jobs and trying to juggle childcare and housework in between and its basically impossibly stressful. My cousin committed suicide 2 years ago. Just took himself to a cheap hotel and hung himself.

Sometimes I wonder myself what the point is as I often feel sick when I wake up in the morning at the thought of another day of just getting through chore after chore and task after task with no enjoyment then take the kids swimming and to the library on the Saturday while they're all kicking off. Arguing with the wife, doing constant house chores, shouting at the kids, then going to sleep...life just feels impossible sometimes. Like when i have to work late or travel last minute due to crisis at work and my wife is tearing her hair out trying to find childcare and then going off on one .......but i couldn't do that to my kids so I just keep soldiering on....