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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Didn't really enjoy Ange's presser (embargoed section). He went into philosopher mode again just talked in riddles for about 10 mins of it. He's having a pop at all the Mr Hinsdights and seemed to imply that any person from any industry that has gone from shopfloor to C-level after 26 years is mostly above scrutiny. Another great example of him being clever with words, but not really addressing the actual question which is why there has been so much scrutiny on him. The question was totally deflected and it came across a bit slopey shoulders.

I did enjoy the main presser though. Some lovely insights into Deki and Bergvals' relationship at the club.
 
Muttley said:
Didn't really enjoy Ange's presser (embargoed section). He went into philosopher mode again just talked in riddles for about 10 mins of it. He's having a pop at all the Mr Hinsdights and seemed to imply that any person from any industry that has gone from shopfloor to C-level after 26 years is mostly above scrutiny. Another great example of him being clever with words, but not really addressing the actual question which is why there has been so much scrutiny on him. The question was totally deflected and it came across a bit slopey shoulders.

I did enjoy the main presser though. Some lovely insights into Deki and Bergvals' relationship at the club.
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You really should listen to it again, he literally says he acknowledges the scrutiny is going to be more intense the higher the level you go - he very clearly states that and has no issue with actual constructive/tactical analysis.

As for the Mr Hindsight, he is bang on and something many other managers have called out when referring to pundits and journalists....
 
harr1984 said:
You really should listen to it again, he literally says he acknowledges the scrutiny is going to be more intense the higher the level you go - he very clearly states that and has no issue with actual constructive/tactical analysis.

As for the Mr Hindsight, he is bang on and something many other managers have called out when referring to pundits and journalists....
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Only Mr Hindsight would be offended.
 
harr1984 said:
You really should listen to it again, he literally says he acknowledges the scrutiny is going to be more intense the higher the level you go - he very clearly states that and has no issue with actual constructive/tactical analysis.

As for the Mr Hindsight, he is bang on and something many other managers have called out when referring to pundits and journalists....
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Agreed!!!!
 
Muttley said:
Didn't really enjoy Ange's presser (embargoed section). He went into philosopher mode again just talked in riddles for about 10 mins of it. He's having a pop at all the Mr Hinsdights and seemed to imply that any person from any industry that has gone from shopfloor to C-level after 26 years is mostly above scrutiny. Another great example of him being clever with words, but not really addressing the actual question which is why there has been so much scrutiny on him. The question was totally deflected and it came across a bit slopey shoulders.

I did enjoy the main presser though. Some lovely insights into Deki and Bergvals' relationship at the club.
Click to expand...

I thought it was excellent and I think he is bang on point.
I'm not sure what you heard, what I heard was someone pointing out that a lot of critics are smart in hindsight and are also never wrong. He's right!
 
thfcsteff said:
I thought it was excellent and I think he is bang on point.
I'm not sure what you heard, what I heard was someone pointing out that a lot of critics are smart in hindsight and are also never wrong. He's right!
Click to expand...

I looked at the different layers actually.

Firstly, if it doesn't bother him then why did he go into a 10 minute exercise to talk about all those things he talked about? I'm sure eventually, nobody can actually remember the actual question asked, because he did such a great job of talking about what he wanted to steer the conversation towards. Smart move and very deliberate. I'm not sure if you remember or not but the actual question was about his job security and whether he'd experienced such scrutiny before in his career. He briefly talked around it and then basically told the world that nobody has the right to question it (in so many words). He word-smithed it beautifully so people are classified as Mr Hindsight and have no right to for that reason. If they're not Mr Hindsight then you shouldn't be challenging people in senior positions in long tenures.

That BS doesn't wash with me. You never lose the right to be challenged about your performance and so many poor performers get promoted way above their abilities. You also see people fail in one role and move laterally and perform superbly in another. Sometimes the role just isn't a fit. If Ange wants to be the philosopher, he should understand the real workplace better. He was way off in his comparatives. Not many people are being Mr Hindsight with him. They are tracking the data points over 2 years and looking at the trends of his performance. They are challenging him in the moment, not with the benefit of hindsight.

I know Ange is brilliant with words, but he needs to work harder on them with me. I respect him for being this organised in his comms but he has a lack of authenticity with the delivery on these occasions. It's almost like interviewing a politician. They never answer the question and just talk about what they want to talk about.
 
thfcsteff said:
I thought it was excellent and I think he is bang on point.
I'm not sure what you heard, what I heard was someone pointing out that a lot of critics are smart in hindsight and are also never wrong. He's right
Click to expand...

thfcsteff said:
I thought it was excellent and I think he is bang on point.
I'm not sure what you heard, what I heard was someone pointing out that a lot of critics are smart in hindsight and are also never wrong. He's right!
Click to expand...
I would argue that Mr. Hinndsight has very little to do with this. There have been valid concerns about Ange’s approach since that Chelsea game and he has got steadily worse, that’s not hindsight.

I found that press conference cringeworthy, yet again another woe is me performance from him and deflecting from the actual issues.

I fully accept that maybe this is now far too entrenched either side in terms of how divisive Ange is.
 
Muttley said:
Didn't really enjoy Ange's presser (embargoed section). He went into philosopher mode again just talked in riddles for about 10 mins of it. He's having a pop at all the Mr Hinsdights and seemed to imply that any person from any industry that has gone from shopfloor to C-level after 26 years is mostly above scrutiny. Another great example of him being clever with words, but not really addressing the actual question which is why there has been so much scrutiny on him. The question was totally deflected and it came across a bit slopey shoulders.

I did enjoy the main presser though. Some lovely insights into Deki and Bergvals' relationship at the club.
Click to expand...
He speaks like someone that has overseen 18 defeats and has is in 13th
 
Muttley said:
I looked at the different layers actually.

Firstly, if it doesn't bother him then why did he go into a 10 minute exercise to talk about all those things he talked about? I'm sure eventually, nobody can actually remember the actual question asked, because he did such a great job of talking about what he wanted to steer the conversation towards. Smart move and very deliberate. I'm not sure if you remember or not but the actual question was about his job security and whether he'd experienced such scrutiny before in his career. He briefly talked around it and then basically told the world that nobody has the right to question it (in so many words). He word-smithed it beautifully so people are classified as Mr Hindsight and have no right to for that reason. If they're not Mr Hindsight then you shouldn't be challenging people in senior positions in long tenures.

That BS doesn't wash with me. You never lose the right to be challenged about your performance and so many poor performers get promoted way above their abilities. You also see people fail in one role and move laterally and perform superbly in another. Sometimes the role just isn't a fit. If Ange wants to be the philosopher, he should understand the real workplace better. He was way off in his comparatives. Not many people are being Mr Hindsight with him. They are tracking the data points over 2 years and looking at the trends of his performance. They are challenging him in the moment, not with the benefit of hindsight.

I know Ange is brilliant with words, but he needs to work harder on them with me. I respect him for being this organised in his comms but he has a lack of authenticity with the delivery on these occasions. It's almost like interviewing a politician. They never answer the question and just talk about what they want to talk about.
Click to expand...
Personally I think you look way too deeply into press conferences, with the greatest of respect. They are a complete waste of time. What are you hoping to get out of them? No manager is going to reveal his tactics in them, the press aren't going to get the answers they want from managers and will twist whatever they do say to suit their narrative. The only one to gain any benefit is the press if they can trap a manager into some headlines, so if Ange can maanage the press good for him.

The fact is the press conferences are irrelevant, if Ange was riding high in the league no one would be questioning what he was saying as much as you will doubtlessly say otherwise. Poch came out with some complete and utter gonads yet people on here glossed over it, and even went to great lengths to try and justify said nonsense by claiming that's not what he really meant and that he was actually really saying something else! Why? Because he was doing well on the pitch, if we were struggling those same words in the media would have been used against him by our fans.

As for things not bothering him ie the press and what they say there is a clear difference - things annoy him like the nonsense the press write, but when he says it doesn't bother him he means (and literally says) it doesn't affect how he goes about his day to day job and life. I don't know about you but there are plenty of things that grind my gears and I will rant about, but it doesn't affect me/influence me and change what I'm doing whatsoever.....
 
harr1984 said:
Personally I think you look way too deeply into press conferences, with the greatest of respect. They are a complete waste of time. What are you hoping to get out of them? No manager is going to reveal his tactics in them, the press aren't going to get the answers they want from managers and will twist whatever they do say to suit their narrative. The only one to gain any benefit is the press if they can trap a manager into some headlines, so if Ange can maanage the press good for him.

The fact is the press conferences are irrelevant, if Ange was riding high in the league no one would be questioning what he was saying as much as you will doubtlessly say otherwise. Poch came out with some complete and utter gonads yet people on here glossed over it, and even went to great lengths to try and justify said nonsense by claiming that's not what he really meant and that he was actually really saying something else! Why? Because he was doing well on the pitch, if we were struggling those same words in the media would have been used against him by our fans.

As for things not bothering him ie the press and what they say there is a clear difference - things annoy him like the nonsense the press write, but when he says it doesn't bother him he means (and literally says) it doesn't affect how he goes about his day to day job and life. I don't know about you but there are plenty of things that grind my gears and I will rant about, but it doesn't affect me/influence me and change what I'm doing whatsoever.....
Click to expand...

You're right. I've always looked deeply into these layers. It's an interest. I know I'm relatively new to this forum, but we've been here before with guys like Jose. Harry was another that used to pretend he was a straight talker when he really wasn't. Just narratives to defend his position. I've pulled a lot of them up over the years. As you say Poch was one. I liked him a lot more though and felt his layers were actually quite authentic. He knew he couldn't call out directly the football operational issues that clearly existed under Levy. It was too controversial. Personally I don't think Ange has that narrative as our club is run really well at this time. Therefore Ange has to find different narratives.

If you look closely, I'm also complimenting Ange in his communication skills. Those pressers are a cauldron and Ange knows he has to strike the right relationship with the reporters that ask him questions each week. He also knows that a few of them bleed Spurs and will go that extra mile if they need to. Those reporters are also pundits themselves. They don't just report. They build the message they want to deliver e.g. Ali Gold and use the social platform. Their reach is vast and they can massively influence the outcome of his job. It's quite interesting watching Ange with Ian Abrahams (Moose) versus Gold. Ange knows Moose is just a comedian and celebrity nowadays (and West Ham) and just goes along with him. However, he knows Ali will get to a another level of questioning that really represents the fans.

Finally, press conferences aren't irrelevant in my mind. They are part of the process. It's where the company talks publicly to their customers i.e. us. We pay the money and they provide a service. It's labelled entertainment, but it is deeper than that. Poor old Ange has to talk on behalf of the entire company.

Anyway, I think Ange lost some authenticity this week. I'll leave it there.
 
Muttley said:
You're right. I've always looked deeply into these layers. It's an interest. I know I'm relatively new to this forum, but we've been here before with guys like Jose. Harry was another that used to pretend he was a straight talker when he really wasn't. Just narratives to defend his position. I've pulled a lot of them up over the years. As you say Poch was one. I liked him a lot more though and felt his layers were actually quite authentic. He knew he couldn't call out directly the football operational issues that clearly existed under Levy. It was too controversial. Personally I don't think Ange has that narrative as our club is run really well at this time. Therefore Ange has to find different narratives.

If you look closely, I'm also complimenting Ange in his communication skills. Those pressers are a cauldron and Ange knows he has to strike the right relationship with the reporters that ask him questions each week. He also knows that a few of them bleed Spurs and will go that extra mile if they need to. Those reporters are also pundits themselves. They don't just report. They build the message they want to deliver e.g. Ali Gold and use the social platform. Their reach is vast and they can massively influence the outcome of his job. It's quite interesting watching Ange with Ian Abrahams (Moose) versus Gold. Ange knows Moose is just a comedian and celebrity nowadays (and West Ham) and just goes along with him. However, he knows Ali will get to a another level of questioning that really represents the fans.

Finally, press conferences aren't irrelevant in my mind. They are part of the process. It's where the company talks publicly to their customers i.e. us. We pay the money and they provide a service. It's labelled entertainment, but it is deeper than that. Poor old Ange has to talk on behalf of the entire company.

Anyway, I think Ange lost some authenticity this week. I'll leave it there.
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There's a lot here I don't particularly agree with, but always enjoy reading other perspectives and it's interesting to hear yours. Fair play....
 
RigorMortis said:
I would argue that Mr. Hinndsight has very little to do with this. There have been valid concerns about Ange’s approach since that Chelsea game and he has got steadily worse, that’s not hindsight.

I found that press conference cringeworthy, yet again another woe is me performance from him and deflecting from the actual issues.

I fully accept that maybe this is now far too entrenched either side in terms of how divisive Ange is.
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Indeed, we are where we are in that regard. I thought it was a great presser personally and still think his time is close/he'll leave or be gone in the summer.

I think the entrenchment seems to lie in how much context he is/is not afforded for the way things have gone?
 
harr1984 said:
Personally I think you look way too deeply into press conferences, with the greatest of respect. They are a complete waste of time. What are you hoping to get out of them? No manager is going to reveal his tactics in them, the press aren't going to get the answers they want from managers and will twist whatever they do say to suit their narrative. The only one to gain any benefit is the press if they can trap a manager into some headlines, so if Ange can maanage the press good for him.

The fact is the press conferences are irrelevant, if Ange was riding high in the league no one would be questioning what he was saying as much as you will doubtlessly say otherwise. Poch came out with some complete and utter gonads yet people on here glossed over it, and even went to great lengths to try and justify said nonsense by claiming that's not what he really meant and that he was actually really saying something else! Why? Because he was doing well on the pitch, if we were struggling those same words in the media would have been used against him by our fans.

As for things not bothering him ie the press and what they say there is a clear difference - things annoy him like the nonsense the press write, but when he says it doesn't bother him he means (and literally says) it doesn't affect how he goes about his day to day job and life. I don't know about you but there are plenty of things that grind my gears and I will rant about, but it doesn't affect me/influence me and change what I'm doing whatsoever.....
Click to expand...

Is the right a nswer IMO.
 
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