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Yves Bissouma

SpurMeUp said:
For me at least, Bissouma is more skillful and has the ability to attack the box more than Dembeke did. Dembeles greatest asset was as a disruptor. He’d suck in one or two players often leave them sprawled on the ground and create space. But that was it. He didn’t have much more. I think Bissouma does have more… hopefully he’ll unleash it.
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Dembele was world class. People just didn’t realise it at the time, but I did 😀

his issue was he didn’t start playing midfield till the second half of his career
id just go with what all his team mates said about him, to a man … he was the best player they okayed with
and that included bale and hazard as team mates for some of them
He could move an opposition player by standing still… that’s a skill that’s so hard to teach. And no one could get the ball from him

I’ve heard rose and trippier both say in the last month that had we had him for the CL we would have won it
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Dembele was world class. People just didn’t realise it at the time, but I did 😀

his issue was he didn’t start playing midfield till the second half of his career
id just go with what all his team mates said about him, to a man … he was the best player they okayed with
and that included bale and hazard as team mates for some of them
He could move an opposition player by standing still… that’s a skill that’s so hard to teach. And no one could get the ball from him

I’ve heard rose and trippier both say in the last month that had we had him for the CL we would have won it
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I definitely miss the guy. Criminally underrated and of course had to do it with Sissoko, who was criminally abused. But I won't deny that if Dembele had a better partner next to him, the team could've done so much better.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Dembele was world class. People just didn’t realise it at the time, but I did 😀

his issue was he didn’t start playing midfield till the second half of his career
id just go with what all his team mates said about him, to a man … he was the best player they okayed with
and that included bale and hazard as team mates for some of them
He could move an opposition player by standing still… that’s a skill that’s so hard to teach. And no one could get the ball from him

I’ve heard rose and trippier both say in the last month that had we had him for the CL we would have won it
Click to expand...

Dembele wasn't world class. Final 3rd he didn't have an assist or shot in him.

He was great at running through people. Possibly the best i've seen. Loved him.

But world class is rewriting history.
 
He was world class - at retaining the ball in midfield and bouncing off challenges. He’d welcome a press and play better with the opposition trying to tackle him. Because when they did he’d leave them -either in a heap or behind him.

A unique skill, I’ve not seen an other player quite like him. But his skill set didn’t go far beyond this. Yet it didn’t need to. Often he would leave two opposition midfielders lying on the turf. He’d suck in men and open space. Bissouma isn’t as good at this and doesn’t have Dembeles physical size. But Bissouma has shown he can beat a man in the box and create more than Dembele did. He should get more goals and assists. Or similar to Dembele will he fall short of applying his considerable talents in the final third? I think there are enough signs that Bissouma can be a real handful in and around the box. He needs more composure but it’s coming. You can see the ingredients of a menace to defences. Ange should be able to draw out this attacking side of his game further.
 
SpurMeUp said:
He was world class - at retaining the ball in midfield and bouncing off challenges. He’d welcome a press and play better with the opposition trying to tackle him. Because when they did he’d leave them -either in a heap or behind him.

A unique skill, I’ve not seen an other player quite like him. But his skill set didn’t go far beyond this. Yet it didn’t need to. Often he would leave two opposition midfielders lying on the turf. He’d suck in men and open space. Bissouma isn’t as good at this and doesn’t have Dembeles physical size. But Bissouma has shown he can beat a man in the box and create more than Dembele did. He should get more goals and assists. Or similar to Dembele will he fall short of applying his considerable talents in the final third? I think there are enough signs that Bissouma can be a real handful in and around the box. He needs more composure but it’s coming. You can see the ingredients of a menace to defences. Ange should be able to draw out this attacking side of his game further.
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Only problem is that Bissouma is 27 and so should be around the peak of his career. So not like he has a long time to really step up if he’s to further his attacking game. He likely has 5-6 years at this level and he’s going to become more susceptible to injury, have less energy every year. But he’s a very good player on his day. I hope that when he returns after suspension he can find the form that he showed at the start of this season again.
 
Lilbaz said:
Dembele wasn't world class. Final 3rd he didn't have an assist or shot in him.

He was great at running through people. Possibly the best i've seen. Loved him.

But world class is rewriting history.
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No
It’s an opinion
As I say… I’d rely on the opinion of his team mates who say he was the best they played with
And that was over players that fans think were world class
Makalele was world class… he didn’t have a shot in him either (unless it was against us)
Different role and set ups mean players play differently
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Dembele was world class. People just didn’t realise it at the time, but I did 😀

his issue was he didn’t start playing midfield till the second half of his career
id just go with what all his team mates said about him, to a man … he was the best player they okayed with
and that included bale and hazard as team mates for some of them
He could move an opposition player by standing still… that’s a skill that’s so hard to teach. And no one could get the ball from him

I’ve heard rose and trippier both say in the last month that had we had him for the CL we would have won it
Click to expand...
One of the few players I remember with great fondness to the point I still go and watch his videos.
 
El Guepardo said:
Only problem is that Bissouma is 27 and so should be around the peak of his career. So not like he has a long time to really step up if he’s to further his attacking game. He likely has 5-6 years at this level and he’s going to become more susceptible to injury, have less energy every year. But he’s a very good player on his day. I hope that when he returns after suspension he can find the form that he showed at the start of this season again.
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Not sure every player maturers at a similar time. That was the initial comparison to Dembele: he might not ever add attacking poise to his game. But I've seen enough flashes to think he can. It is partly on the coaches and manager to get him practiced and composed. At the moment he tends to get that rush of blood when shooting and lose composure. That can be coached. He can be more clinical. And if he's to step up you need to get his head right in those critical positions. To become an assain, to see the ball in slow mo, to know where it will end up in the net, and to execute. He jinks around defenders in around the box just fine. He's lithe, agile, just composure and finishing to start to nail. Will he? I think he will.
 
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Lilbaz said:
Dembele wasn't world class. Final 3rd he didn't have an assist or shot in him.

He was great at running through people. Possibly the best i've seen. Loved him.

But world class is rewriting history.
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And this is the problem with the modern game, an over emphasis on stats. Dembele was world class in his role, and for what he gave to our team in that system. Many opposition players referenced him being the most difficult they had come up against. In an ideal world he should have added more goals to his game, but that wasn't his role in the side and you can bet your bottom dollar Kane, Son and Dele wouldn't of got anywhere near the amount of goals and assists they did without Dembele beasting midfields left right and centre week in week out....
 
harr1984 said:
And this is the problem with the modern game, an over emphasis on stats. Dembele was world class in his role, and for what he gave to our team in that system. Many opposition players referenced him being the most difficult they had come up against. In an ideal world he should have added more goals to his game, but that wasn't his role in the side and you can bet your bottom dollar Kane, Son and Dele wouldn't of got anywhere near the amount of goals and assists they did without Dembele beasting midfields left right and centre week in week out....
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He was world class at dribbling and holding players off. He was not a world class midfielder. There is more to the game than just being able to beat a man and use your physical strength to hold them off.

Yes he certainly some attributes that were to a world class standard butbhe was far from a world class player.
 
Bishop said:
He was world class at dribbling and holding players off. He was not a world class midfielder. There is more to the game than just being able to beat a man and use your physical strength to hold them off.

Yes he certainly some attributes that were to a world class standard butbhe was far from a world class player.
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Can't agree mate. Yes there are various elements to being a top midfielder. But he BOSSED a midfield constantly at his peak and for me he really was. We have never ever come close to having as good a CM since him. All about opinions though I appreciate....
 
I think the issue with Dembele was just that his peak was quite a short period of time.

He was actually pretty crap for his first 3 seasons with us. Remember Poch's first tactical 'win' was dropping him and Capoue for Mason and Bentaleb, just to sort out the chronic slow transitioning (which was a big issue for Dembele - just that slow release he had).

Early 2015 Poch started easing him back into the team at RAM (the role Eriksen and Alli both later used to switch/float into). It was only from autumn 2015 that he started trusting/using him back in the CM double pivot.

For 3 season then - 2015/16 to 2017/18 - he was genuinely one of the best CMs in the world, and an absolute driver of our success at that time.

And then autumn 2018 his body went off a cliff and he never got it back.

So in 6.5 years, we got 3 years of world class and 3.5 of average. Which is why I think there's differing memories of him.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think the issue with Dembele was just that his peak was quite a short period of time.

He was actually pretty crap for his first 3 seasons with us. Remember Poch's first tactical 'win' was dropping him and Capoue for Mason and Bentaleb, just to sort out the chronic slow transitioning (which was a big issue for Dembele - just that slow release he had).

Early 2015 Poch started easing him back into the team at RAM (the role Eriksen and Alli both later used to switch/float into). It was only from autumn 2015 that he started trusting/using him back in the CM double pivot.

For 3 season then - 2015/16 to 2017/18 - he was genuinely one of the best CMs in the world, and an absolute driver of our success at that time.

And then autumn 2018 his body went off a cliff and he never got it back.

So in 6.5 years, we got 3 years of world class and 3.5 of average. Which is why I think there's differing memories of him.
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Agree with a lot there apart from your pre-Poch haze. He was also outstanding alongside Sandro in the early AVB days. He just became a bit of a spacegoat for the turgid displays at the end, many people blamed Dembele for them and haven’t been able to fully admit they were wrong.

He definitely seems to get judged to a different standard to every other player. It won’t be long before someone says “yea he was good but with his talent he should have scored/assisted more” but when do you ever hear that of other deep CM’s like Busquets, Alonso, etc.?
 
Lilbaz said:
Dembele wasn't world class. Final 3rd he didn't have an assist or shot in him.

He was great at running through people. Possibly the best i've seen. Loved him.

But world class is rewriting history.
Click to expand...

My thoughts as well, he was A very good player but i always thought he never fulfilled that talent to the max. For me HE would do brilliant work beating a man in midfield and moving forward then then seemed to stop and go back again on many occasions.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
Agree with a lot there apart from your pre-Poch haze. He was also outstanding alongside Sandro in the early AVB days. He just became a bit of a spacegoat for the turgid displays at the end, many people blamed Dembele for them and haven’t been able to fully admit they were wrong.

He definitely seems to get judged to a different standard to every other player. It won’t be long before someone says “yea he was good but with his talent he should have scored/assisted more” but when do you ever hear that of other deep CM’s like Busquets, Alonso, etc.?
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Yesterday …
I literally heard it yesterday…
and there is always recency bias and revisionism with players
it’s the nature of fans memories
its Why in the case of Demebel I defer back to what his team mates say about him
it’s generally exceptional
 
Saying Dembele wasn't world class is like say Busquets wasn't or Makelele wasn't. Rodri gets noshed off weekly for doing much less in that position weekly.

The amount of players in world football that have receive it from a centre back against the press, protect the ball and beat the press by themselves you can count on one hand.

The man never lost possession for a season. In the so called best league in the world. He fulfilled his talent in the same way Kane has, was a world class player in a non world class team.

You can be world class with a specialist skill set. Alexander-Arnold for example gets considered world class but he can't defend. Pirlo couldn't run, but destroyed England from the centre circle.
 
fernadez said:
Saying Dembele wasn't world class is like say Busquets wasn't or Makelele wasn't. Rodri gets noshed off weekly for doing much less in that position weekly.

The amount of players in world football that have receive it from a centre back against the press, protect the ball and beat the press by themselves you can count on one hand.

The man never lost possession for a season. In the so called best league in the world. He fulfilled his talent in the same way Kane has, was a world class player in a non world class team.

You can be world class with a specialist skill set. Alexander-Arnold for example gets considered world class but he can't defend. Pirlo couldn't run, but destroyed England from the centre circle.
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I think Rodri is overated
But he is a huge player for city
Looks average for Spain when I’ve seen him
 
fernadez said:
Saying Dembele wasn't world class is like say Busquets wasn't or Makelele wasn't. Rodri gets noshed off weekly for doing much less in that position weekly.

The amount of players in world football that have receive it from a centre back against the press, protect the ball and beat the press by themselves you can count on one hand.

The man never lost possession for a season. In the so called best league in the world. He fulfilled his talent in the same way Kane has, was a world class player in a non world class team.

You can be world class with a specialist skill set. Alexander-Arnold for example gets considered world class but he can't defend. Pirlo couldn't run, but destroyed England from the centre circle.
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I honestly don't think Demebele is near Busquets or Makelele in terms of quality or effectiveness. His passing was very poor, in terms of range, execution, selection and timing. Which is far too important a facet of a midfielders game for me to consider him World Class. As I said I accept he had some outstanding attributes but his game wasn't balanced, outstanding in some areas and very poor in some others and for me this isn't recency bias. I've always criticised him for the same things.

I also don't consider TAA a world class player. He has some WC attributes or even talents but given he is a RB he is far from WC imo.

People throw the WC tag out very easily and confuse periods of WC form, or even a WC talent for actually being a WC player. For me these are different things.
 
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