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WTF 9 year old girl with an uzi.....

Richie said:
This might be an unpopular opinion but I don't have a huge problem with children handling guns in the right conditions under appropriate supervision, but most importantly it has to be the right gun.

In the UK over 7000 shotgun licenses were given to under 18s between 2008 and 2010, thirteen of which were given to under 10s, and as long as they are taught to respect the weapon and use it correctly I don't think it's a huge problem.

Obviously giving a 9 year old an automatic weapon is unbelievably stupid for exactly this reason, and under 10 is probably too young for any firearm, but I'm not quite sure where that line should be drawn for something like Clay Pigeon shooting in the UK.

The problem with guns in America is about the culture that surrounds guns, not strictly the guns themselves IMO. Switzerland has a higher rate of gun ownership than the US because of their standing militia but has very low gun homicide rates.
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The gun homicide rater is high, but has little do with legally purchasing guns. An extreme vast majority of gun crimes committed are with illegally obtained/unregistered guns.

I have zero problems with 8 or 9 year old children shooting guns if they are properly supervised and trained. I shot my first gun at 8. The entire issue with this case is that the gun was put on a full auto mode. She shot the gun with zero issues on single shot mode. That is irresponsible by the parents and instructor and not that fault of the gun.

The issue isn't owning guns and people legally owning guns. Those of us who legally own guns know the power that they have and respect what it is. It is the gang and crime culture that creates the issue with guns and sadly they aren't killing each other off fast enough to start to kill that culture.

Why would anyone want to own a gun? They are fun to shoot. Competition shooting is a blast. I see no reason people need to own about 98% of what they own, just because I don't see the point in it doesn't mean I think it should be banned.
 
IowaSpur said:
I have zero problems with 8 or 9 year old children shooting guns if they are properly supervised and trained. I shot my first gun at 8. The entire issue with this case is that the gun was put on a full auto mode. She shot the gun with zero issues on single shot mode. That is irresponsible by the parents and instructor and not that fault of the gun.
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Do you think an easy solution would be to ban children (or even, say, under 12s or 15s) from using automatic weapons? Just on the off chance that it might accidentally be left on the automatic setting or even worse on purpose.

I'm very against banning things in general, but it's pretty clear that you can't trust some peoples common sense not to let children use a weapon they can't handle.
 
IowaSpur said:
The gun homicide rater is high, but has little do with legally purchasing guns. An extreme vast majority of gun crimes committed are with illegally obtained/unregistered guns.
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I think you're right, which is why banning the sale of guns would be pointless in a country where they are already so prevalent.
 
LutonSpurs said:
We have low gun crime in the UK because it is hard to obtain one legally. Simple.
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Guns and Rifles
Michael Moore famously showed a bank giving away a gun as a wild incentive in the movie "Bowling For Columbine." A scene in the film depicts how Moore discovered a bank in Michigan that would give customers a free hunting rifle when they made a deposit of a certain size into a time deposit account. The film follows Moore as he goes to the bank, makes his deposit, fills out the forms and awaits the result of a background check before walking out of the bank carrying a brand new Weatherby hunting rifle.

Just before leaving the bank, Moore jokingly asks, "Do you think it's a little dangerous handing out guns at a bank?"

The bank was North Country Financial Corp., and customers needed $869 in a 20-year certificate of deposit for the bank to hand over a Weatherby Inc. Mark V Synthetic rifle. If customers deposited more, they could have a choice of six Weatherby shotguns or a limited-edition rifle, reports the Chicago Sun-Times
 
Reminded me of this show which was on Channel 4 a few weeks ago...

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/kids-and-guns
The controversial right to bear arms is at the heart of American culture.

In the USA there is a huge divide among parents. Some are against the sale of toy guns while others are buying the children the real thing.

This documentary sheds light on the world of child shooters, illuminating the fascinating beliefs, ambitions and paranoia that underpin it.

Teaching kids to shoot is seen as a fun family experience and yet over 3000 children are injured or killed every year in accidental shootings.

This unique and moving film follows the stories of three American families tackling the difficult issues behind the American relationship with firearms and the compelling stories behind the horrifying statistics.
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[video=youtube;AD9wIb1qjW0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD9wIb1qjW0[/video]
 
LutonSpurs said:
We have low gun crime in the UK because it is hard to obtain one legally. Simple.
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Actually I disagree, I think we have low gun crime because it is difficult to obtain one illegally. Its a subtle difference.

I suspect most people posting on this board could join a club and successfully obtain a shotgun license if they wanted to.

As our friend from Iowa said, it's not the legal guns you should worry about but the illegal ones.
 
Richie said:
Do you think an easy solution would be to ban children (or even, say, under 12s or 15s) from using automatic weapons? Just on the off chance that it might accidentally be left on the automatic setting or even worse on purpose.

I'm very against banning things in general, but it's pretty clear that you can't trust some peoples common sense not to let children use a weapon they can't handle.
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I don't think anyone should own a fully automatic weapon without special a license. The issue is that it isn't "hard" for someone that knows that their doing to convert a semi to a full. As for shooting age, I don't know that there should be an age as it has more to do with strength and being able to handle the recoil. The first couple times someone shoots one it should only be loaded with 3-5 rounds.

I don't have the stat in font of me, but the number of gun crimes committed by people who legally purchased their gun is infinity lower than those illegally owned.
 
Roy1983 said:
Well what's the point of it?

Just ban all guns. Destroy them one by one.
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So because you don't see the point you think it should be banned?

Do you feel that way for all things that are dangerous, or just things you don't engage in?
 
IowaSpur said:
So because you don't see the point you think it should be banned?

Do you feel that way for all things that are dangerous, or just things you don't engage in?
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Get rid of guns and people don't die from gunshot wounds. Comprende?
 
Roy1983 said:
Get rid of guns and people don't die from gunshot wounds. Comprende?
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People don't tend to kill other people just because they own a gun in some weird "Well, I bought it, so I may as well use it" twist of logic.

They do it because they want the other person dead - that will happen with or without guns.
 
markysimmo said:
Not scared just dont see why any sane or responsible person would need one
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For the same reason I drive my kid around in a big, heavy car. Everyone else on the school run has one and I don't plan on being the one that gets fvcked driving a Micra if they crash into me.
 
scaramanga said:
People don't tend to kill other people just because they own a gun in some weird "Well, I bought it, so I may as well use it" twist of logic.

They do it because they want the other person dead - that will happen with or without guns.
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And then there's the "unintentional shootings" resulting in deaths.

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.

People of all age groups are significantly more likely to die from unintentional firearm injuries when they live in states with more guns, relative to states with fewer guns. On average, states with the highest gun levels had nine times the rate of unintentional firearms deaths compared to states with the lowest gun levels.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/#identifier_18_5975
 
Daisuk said:
And then there's the "unintentional shootings" resulting in deaths.

From 2005-2010, almost 3,800 people in the U.S. died from unintentional shootings.

People of all age groups are significantly more likely to die from unintentional firearm injuries when they live in states with more guns, relative to states with fewer guns. On average, states with the highest gun levels had nine times the rate of unintentional firearms deaths compared to states with the lowest gun levels.

http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/#identifier_18_5975
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That's not the point. I was responding to the suggestion that removing all guns would stop death from gunshot wounds, as if the issue is the method not the death itself.
 
Roy1983 said:
Get rid of guns and people don't die from gunshot wounds. Comprende?
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Do you smoke?

Banning smoking, and chewing tobacco, would bring the number of people dying from lung cancer, throat cancer, oral cancer, heart disease, stroke, etc... to EXTREMELY low levels. Are you for banning tobacco?

Banning alcohol would mean people wouldn't die from drunk drivers, cancer rates are tied to use of alcohol, cardiovascular disease, cirrhosis, dementia, depression, siezures, gout, high blood pressure, not to mention the number of sexually transmitted diseases that could be avoided from not having drunken one night stands, or unwanted pregnancies.

Banning planes would result in no one ever dying from a plane being shot down, run into a building/hijacked, etc...

Banning cars would result in no traffic deaths.

Do you see how absurd this can be?


Do you really think making owning a gun illegal is going to stop gun issues?


Here, do me a favor - please, honest request.

I live 3-4 hours from Chicago, IL. I want you to research what the gun laws in Chicago (or the state of Illinois for that matter) are.

I then want you to look at what the gun crime rate in the city of Chicago is.


I'll give you a hint -

Chicago has one of the 2 or 3 strictest sets of laws about guns in the entire nation.
Chicago has between 30-40 killed EVERY WEEKEND by guns

Tell me, how is it possible that owning a gun in Chicago is illegal, but all these people are killed by guns?

Crack, heroine, meth, sex trafficking, etc... all illegal but it still happens all the damn time. How can that be?

If you really think that banning responsible people from owning guns is going to solve all of the issues and make you feel better in your magical little world, then common sense can't help you.


I can set all 4 of my guns on my kitchen table, loaded, and just watch them for years and they won't kill a single person. Now, if a stupid person comes and illegally takes the gun and does some stupid **** with it? Yeah, that I can't help.
 
Jesus Christ there are actually people on here who think guns are not an issue in the States? This is probably the single most bewildering thing I've read on this board.

The best commentary I've seen on the issue (and it IS an issue) is this:

[video=youtube;9pOiOhxujsE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE[/video]

[video=youtube;TYbY45rHj8w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbY45rHj8w[/video]

[video=youtube;mVuspKSjfgA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuspKSjfgA[/video]
 
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@IowaSpur

All of these things you mention are fundamentally different from guns. Neither tobacco, alcohol or cars are weapons of war designed to kill people. Many things kill people, but a gun is specifically built for that purpose and is being used correctly when it does kill someone. A car is not being used correctly when it kills someone, and if someone wants to drink or smoke to death that's their business.

You say the problem is illegal guns, but most of the illegal guns started out legally, and work their way onto the black market.

America will be awash with guns for a long time yet, not a lot to say about it, other than it will only change when people stop getting a hard on by playing around with them.
 
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