Width

[Maltese Falcon]

I get the ever increasing feeling that Lamela and Eriksen risk becoming for us the equivalent what the Lampard and Gerrard combo was for England. Both extremely good players but who - irrespective of where you play them - end up gravitating to exactly the same places on the pitch, getting into each other's way and unbalancing the team.

There were times in the first half when the two of them, Alli and Kane were camped (or cramped) out in a square not more than a few yards from the edge of the box meaning Sunderland could just snuff them out by piling players around them.

In addition, they seem to offer exactly the same kind of threat, with little variation between them; their goal scoring threat is extremely low - godsmacked that today were the first goals in open play for Eriksen for a year! True... this was not helped by the full backs but irrespective whether it is Walker/Davies or Trippier/Rose, the end result seems to be the same: congested central area with very little width to our play.

We could do so much with either a winger or with a striker who would allow Kane to drop deep and offer an alternative option to our attack which has becoming somewhat predicable

 

[AdamB]

I agree to some extent. I've said for a while that if we finish top 4 and really want to push on, there we need a bit more star quality in the three behind Kane and specifically someone with a big of that unpredictable creativity who can produce a chance out of nothing. Other top teams in the PL have people like David Silva, Hazard, Willian, Alexis Sanchez, Depay, Ozil etc. Players like Eriksen, Lamela and Chadli are ok for a team trying to get into the top 4 but a team wanting to stay there and compete in the CL need a little more quality in those areas. The best I actually think we have in those positions is Son given he takes defenders on and has some pace and thereby can open up tight defences. These sort of players obviously don't come cheap though so we'd need some decent activity in the transfer market

 

[NaijaSpurs]

I agree to some extent. I've said for a while that if we finish top 4 and really want to push on, there we need a bit more star quality in the three behind Kane and specifically someone with a big of that unpredictable creativity who can produce a chance out of nothing. Other top teams in the PL have people like David Silva, Hazard, Willian, Alexis Sanchez, Depay, Ozil etc. Players like Eriksen, Lamela and Chadli are ok for a team trying to get into the top 4 but a team wanting to stay there and compete in the CL need a little more quality in those areas. The best I actually think we have in those positions is Son given he takes defenders on and has some pace and thereby can open up tight defences. These sort of players obviously don't come cheap though so we'd need some decent activity in the transfer market

Based on this season anyway Depay is no better than what we have although I understand the overall point you are making

 

[Pirate55]

I agree with both the above posts. Lamela works hard and has improved this season but still doesn't have enough star quality that we need to take us up to the next level. I have been advocating giving Son a run to see if he can do it. He looked really promising before his injury.

 

[Bullet]

gravitating to exactly the same places on the pitch, getting into each other's way ... There were times in the first half when the two of them, Alli and Kane were camped (or cramped) out in a square not more than a few yards from the edge of the box meaning Sunderland could just snuff them out by piling players around them.

This. It has been happening for years though. Pushing our soft attack at the tightly closed central wall of the defence, like licking a brick wall time and time again, there is just no way through. So what do we do next time? Lick the wall again. And again. Players need to make more exciting runs behind, move more, take a chance, try to beat a man or slide the ball behind the full back... not just keep licking at the wall all day long. And then the next day. And the next.

 

[El Guepardo]

we need a natural winger in the squad. All the play was in the centre of the pitch. We need to be able to spread the play, pull the opposition defence wide, thereby creating more space for our attacking play. Our wingers are too keen to cut inwards, so the play gets bogged down in the centre and we just can't get through.

The alternative is to make greater use of the width provided by our full backs and encourage the full backs to be more comfortable in possession.

 

[milo]

we need a natural winger in the squad. All the play was in the centre of the pitch. We need to be able to spread the play, pull the opposition defence wide, thereby creating more space for our attacking play. Our wingers are too keen to cut inwards, so the play gets bogged down in the centre and we just can't get through.

The alternative is to make greater use of the width provided by our full backs and encourage the full backs to be more comfortable in possession.

I don't see how you can fit a natural winger into this system. How would that work with closing down the opposition close to goal? Wouldn't it reduce our goal threat because you would have one less player around the box who had the ball on their favoured foot with a shot on?

Our full backs are there to provide the width. The front four are also pretty good at moving around and drifting out wide. We have just had a run of games against teams that are happy to sit on the edge of their box and soak up pressure. Teams playing like that are difficult to breakdown no matter how you line up.

 

[Bullet]

Our full backs are there to provide the width. The front four are also pretty good at moving around and drifting out wide.

Sometimes they provide width. Often they drift infield too! For instance Rose's first shot today, he was in line with the goal, should have been way out on the touchline providing width, so the fullback has a choice to make. Happens all the time. And the front 4 are not good at drifting out wide because as soon as they drift wide and receive the ball they drive infield, beat a man and lay it off to the same bloke who just gave them the damn ball!

Rinse and repeat, spray it wide so someone can dribble back infield to where we started, then spray it wide and do it again... I don't know what our tactic is really, are we trying to get it wide to cross or just trying to shift defenders around, waiting for an opening, or just passing the buck and passing the buck until something lucky happens?

 

[El Guepardo]

I don't see how you can fit a natural winger into this system. How would that work with closing down the opposition close to goal? Wouldn't it reduce our goal threat because you would have one less player around the box who had the ball on their favoured foot with a shot on?

Our full backs are there to provide the width. The front four are also pretty good at moving around and drifting out wide. We have just had a run of games against teams that are happy to sit on the edge of their box and soak up pressure. Teams playing like that are difficult to breakdown no matter how you line up.

But if we play more centrally, we are easier to defend against. We need to have movement in the wide areas and, as has been debated above, Eriksen and Lamela prefer to cut in to the centre.

Yes, we may lose some of our ability to press but, against sides like Sunderland, against whom we will dominate possession, it's best to worry about what we do when we have the ball than to worry about defensive work.

Our goal threat wouldn't be reduced. We would have a player out wide that could deliver crosses which our other players could potentially thrive on, plus the opposition would need to defend against the wide player which might provide greater space in the centre. Furthermore, this would leave a winger attacking the far post when the play is at the opposite wing.

 

[milo]

Sometimes they provide width. Often they drift infield too! For instance Rose's first shot today, he was in line with the goal, should have been way out on the touchline providing width, so the fullback has a choice to make. Happens all the time. And the front 4 are not good at drifting out wide because as soon as they drift wide and receive the ball they drive infield, beat a man and lay it off to the same bloke who just gave them the damn ball!

Rinse and repeat, spray it wide so someone can dribble back infield to where we started, then spray it wide and do it again... I don't know what our tactic is really, are we trying to get it wide to cross or just trying to shift defenders around, waiting for an opening, or just passing the buck and passing the buck until something lucky happens?

Running down the line and putting in a cross is not a very effective way of playing. I was pleased today to see our fullbacks mix it up a bit, although obviously not with Rose's brick shot when there were half a dozen better options on.

With regards to the tactic when we are in possession and a team sitting deep, we are trying to move the ball around and empt them into drifting out of position to create an opening.

 

[milo]

But if we play more centrally, we are easier to defend against. We need to have movement in the wide areas and, as has been debated above, Eriksen and Lamela prefer to cut in to the centre.

Yes, we may lose some of our ability to press but, against sides like Sunderland, against whom we will dominate possession, it's best to worry about what we do when we have the ball than to worry about defensive work.

Our goal threat wouldn't be reduced. We would have a player out wide that could deliver crosses which our other players could potentially thrive on, plus the opposition would need to defend against the wide player which might provide greater space in the centre. Furthermore, this would leave a winger attacking the far post when the play is at the opposite wing.

How many top teams play as you describe? Who would you like us to emulate?

 

[El Guepardo]

How many top teams play as you describe? Who would you like us to emulate?

I'm discussing a style of play, not teams that play in that manner. And raising the importance of width in our play, something which is lacking far too often for us. We need to stretch the play, rather than let the play get congested in the centre.

 

[milo]

I'm discussing a style of play, not teams that play in that manner. And raising the importance of width in our play, something which is lacking far too often for us. We need to stretch the play, rather than let the play get congested in the centre.

I get that but I think that it would help if you could draw a parallel with a team who comparable to us but play in a the way that you describe.

 

[Armchair Expert]

I honestly feel that the pitch doesn't help us in this regard. WHL is a ground that lends itself to the opposition camping out imo. Isn't the smallest pitch in the league or something?

 

[Daisuk]

A friend of mine always keep going on about our lack of width, but I don't really get it. We're attacking down the sides all the time. Rose and Trippier got the ball along their lines probably 50 times each during the game today (an exaggeration, obviously, but I think they had plenty of the ball down the wings). I don't think width alone will break teams down. We had lots of chances today to get a cross in, and often did cross it, but it's just not very effective.

I do agree that we need to move around more in and around the box, create space for one another and look to play the early pass. It's not something you'll be able to do at every opportunity, but the urgency and willingness we showed in our passing for our equalizer today showed that we can do it. We just need to risk more and somehow co-ordinate our movement more, it's not enough that one guy sees another guy on a good run, you need a third guy to run into space to get the ball from the second guy. So more clever play warranted, agreed! It's difficult though, and I do believe we have improved massively on this over the course of the last year.

 

[7percent]

He's a massive b3llend, but..

He says it in the first sentence 'here I am, occupying the right back' Again at 2:40, their full back 'can't mark two men at the same time'

It suits the defending team to keep everything congested, it suits the attacking team to spread the play, tire the other team out and try and find spaces between the centre backs and full backs.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The key isn't width or playing centrally it's just utilising the space you have to the best of your ability

Some teams will allow us to go wide and eat up crosses

Others will let us pile through the middle as they will sit back and go square on (MOTD highlighted Sunderland doing exactly that today)

If you mix it up it makes it much harder for defence to stay organised and you stretch them out of their plan

We look so much better playing one and two touch football and spreading and contracting the play to suit. Our first goal came exactly from that and they didn't know where to poistion themselves.

Shooting more often is important too. Kane's best shots always come when there quick ones and the defender/keeper hasn't had a chance to position themselves. Most of Vardys goals have come that way and so have Allis for example.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He's a massive b3llend, but..

He says it in the first sentence 'here I am, occupying the right back' Again at 2:40, their full back 'can't mark two men at the same time'

It suits the defending team to keep everything congested, it suits the attacking team to spread the play, tire the other team out and try and find spaces between the centre backs and full backs.

That wouldn't work in this league as well as teams are simply more set up to hold a line. Watch the MOTD highlights tonight and at one point they highlight the Sunderland defence all within 30 yards of each other around the semi circle in the area, and then a couple in front and Adam Johnson and Danny Graham at full backs. That's 8 men behind the ball and not moving toward to pressure us, just staying organised. They were not woo reuse about who was where from our side, just where they were to limit our progress

 

[milo]

It suits the defending team to keep everything congested, it suits the attacking team to spread the play, tire the other team out and try and find spaces between the centre backs and full backs.

I think that the best way around that is movement by the front four players and fullbacks rather than allocating a specific player to stay wide

 

[7percent]

I think that the best way around that is movement by the front four players and fullbacks rather than allocating a specific player to stay wide

I just felt for my liking today Rose was a bit too narrow when Sunderland were camped out. If he was wider it would have given Sunderland a different problem.