sc25
Banned
Would like to help you out, but was told last season that individual errors still fall back on the manager since he picks the team and the buck stops there.
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Why are we such a pushover against the top sides?
- Thread starter Spur of the moment
- Start date
Would like to help you out, but was told last season that individual errors still fall back on the manager since he picks the team and the buck stops there.
M
markospurs
Guest
I just think we go to pieces when something goes wrong in the games against the top 4.
We also always seem to have a player sent off and once again a big score goes against us.
City were more potent than us but 4-1 was a bit harsh.
Its time levy addressed the scoring problem and lack of a top class striker.
We also always seem to have a player sent off and once again a big score goes against us.
City were more potent than us but 4-1 was a bit harsh.
Its time levy addressed the scoring problem and lack of a top class striker.
Stiff_Swede
Anthony Gardner
Well I guess we have to disagree then, in my opinion we have some of the worst CB in the PL, and in my opinion the only one with some class is Vertongen. Kaboul and Chiriches are so poor and makes so much misstakes its painful to watch.
Personally I would like to se Dier and Vertongen together some time, cant be any worse that Kaboul/Chiriches or Kaboul/Fazio...
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SC. Yep I can just imagine the flak Tim would have got had he got it as wrong as Poch did yesterday. To reiterate, so as to answer VolSpur's question, here are some of the things that Poch did wrong.Selection - Playing Fazio as IndianSpur rightly says was rank bad judgement, of all the places to give a CB a debut, the Etihad, I mean, soooo wrong.
Playing Lamela after he'd been to the Far East. Now maybe Poch was ill advised by his medical staff here, I don't know. But no way could he be totally fresh, and we simply needed a stronger mid, he should have let Lamela miss this one.
Tactics - Kaboul was left exposed time and again against Aguero, and our defensive shape looked to be too vulnerable. I'm no tactics expert, but it seemed like the dreaded high line to me, which has failed so often for us against the top teams. Certainly time and again City sliced through us, and some of that at least is because of the way we were set out by Poch. Also Poch's pre-match strategy of bigging up Aguero looks like an error in hindsight.
I could probably add some more criticisms, but I'll leave it at that.
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glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Selection - Playing Fazio as IndianSpur rightly says was rank bad judgement, of all the places to give a CB a debut, the Etihad, I mean, soooo wrong.
Playing Lamela after he'd been to the Far East. Now maybe Poch was ill advised by his medical staff here, I don't know. But no way could he be totally fresh, and we simply needed a stronger mid, he should have let Lamela miss this one.
Tactics - Kaboul was left exposed time and again against Aguero, and our defensive shape looked to be too vulnerable. I'm no tactics expert, but it seemed like the dreaded high line to me, which has failed so often for us against the top teams. Certainly time and again City sliced through us, and some of that at least is because of the way we were set out by Poch. Also Poch's pre-match strategy of bigging up Aguero looks like an error in hindsight.
I could probably add some more criticisms, but I'll leave it at that.
Fazio would probably have been no worse than Vertonghen. A toss-up imo. When any of our CBs are left with no protection against the likes of Aguero it isn't pretty.
You talk about how Lamela perhaps shouldn't have started:
a) he played one game in the far east a week previously; ironically as many as Aguero
b) if you say he should not have played, then doesn't that negate your point re Vertonghen? After all he played two games in the international break with Belgium, whilst Fazio didn't play ANY and would likely have been training closely with Poch and Kaboul
I agree we seemed to leave our cbs exposed, but that was Capoue's job, and I do sometimes feel that he is to cumbersome in the cm against certain quick midfielders and attackers and often is slow to get back if caught upfield.
For all that, do you REALLY want to contemplate if we had set up against them in a 4-4-2 with Chali and Paulinho in CM?? If you're complaining about lack of cover for the cbs with yesterday's set-up, GHod knows what you'd be saying if it was those two as our CMs
Hashegotthesackyet?
Gudni Bergsson
Pace or no pace, Kaboul is farking shiiite! Too early for Fazio, or to make a judgement, but totally agree in your CB partnership and sentiment.
I don't ever want to see Chiriches & Kaboulsup play for us again... or "Ade" ...
Personally i would have played Kaboul and JV together, and both should be playing every week to build a partnership, we change the back two too much. Kaboul seems to play better alongside JV.
Playing Fazio in such a big game was a gamble. i can only think Poch put Fazio in ahead of JV because there was some fitness doubt, but the fact JV came on says to me he was 100% fit.
I thought Mason showed alot of promise in the game but we were way too open and would have played Stambouli ahead of him to shield the back four and had him covering the pockets that Ageuro was finding too much space in.
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Remember Verts was the only CB on the bench, perhaps even the only defender. We had gone down to ten men and had lost a CB so Poch didn't have much choice but to bring him on. To give Verts the benefit of he doubt perhaps a lack of fitness was why Aguero outstripped him so easily for the 4th goal :-k
I was hoping for Stambouli as well, but I think Dembele coming on was also to stiffen our CM but with the hope that we wouldn't lose our forward attacking ability. If Soldado had scored the penalty it might have worked...might...
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
I'll be honest and say that I would have put stambouli in as well but I can't call what Poch did as wrong. He didn't do what I would have done, doesn't make him wrong.
The score was very harsh and anyone watching that game and last years must be happy with the progress as a TEAM.
There is still weaknesses in there but they are being worked out, every week we get closer.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
The score was very harsh and anyone watching that game and last years must be happy with the progress as a TEAM.
There is still weaknesses in there but they are being worked out, every week we get closer.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
awesome dawson
Mitchell Thomas
Lack of strong characters/leaders. Not even sure MS will be the answer, think we need a bigger character. The Edgar Davids factor turned out club around, we need a signing to replicate that. Lift the younger players and drag them through tough games. Soldado is pathetic as a character. Capoue seems silent. Lamela and Chadli and Erikssen are like little boys in a mans game.
We've got no chance of keeping hold of Lloris is this continues for the rest of the season. He's the next cab off the rank.
We've got no chance of keeping hold of Lloris is this continues for the rest of the season. He's the next cab off the rank.
Fazio would probably have been no worse than Vertonghen. A toss-up imo. When any of our CBs are left with no protection against the likes of Aguero it isn't pretty.
You talk about how Lamela perhaps shouldn't have started:
a) he played one game in the far east a week previously; ironically as many as Aguero
b) if you say he should not have played, then doesn't that negate your point re Vertonghen? After all he played two games in the international break with Belgium, whilst Fazio didn't play ANY and would likely have been training closely with Poch and Kaboul
I agree we seemed to leave our cbs exposed, but that was Capoue's job, and I do sometimes feel that he is to cumbersome in the cm against certain quick midfielders and attackers and often is slow to get back if caught upfield.
For all that, do you REALLY want to contemplate if we had set up against them in a 4-4-2 with Chali and Paulinho in CM?? If you're complaining about lack of cover for the cbs with yesterday's set-up, GHod knows what you'd be saying if it was those two as our CMs
Re Fazio, it just doesn't make sense to give him his Prem debut away at City.
Re Lamela and Vertonghen, the two are different, Jan played in Europe not the far East. I've travelled back from the Far East and the jet lag is at a different level compared to the places Jan played in. It's true that Aguero did the same journey, so that I admit could negate my point. However some people are affected more by jet lag than others, plus Aguero is a much better player than Lamela, plus for me we didn't need Lamela in that game, we needed Stambouli instead, or even Dembele, not that I'm his biggest fan.
The Capoue point is why I would have played Stmabouli as well, and why IMHO Poch got it wrong here. He should have known Cap wasn't going to be able to do the necessary covering and needed help in that regard.
I never mentioned playing Paulinho or playing 4-4-2, and I think you should read my posts more carefully if you're going to criticize me, even by implication, in such a fashion. When I first saw that comment and the emoticon, my immediate reaction was to ignore your post, but overall I think your reply was fair and measured so I'm happy to respond to it. To make it clear, before the game I was talking of a mid 3 Stamb, Mason Cap, and a 'front three' of Eriksen, Kane and Chadli. I wouldn't necessarily call it 4-3-3, because I think such labels are often misleading, but something like a 4-3-3 or a 4-3-2-1, but as I'm not the manager, it's pretty daft for me to try to micro manage at that level.
Fair enough it's pretty daft of me, and indeed all of us, who post 'our teams' as they mean **** all compared to what our manager thinks, but hey it's a game many of us like to play.
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Fair comments, this was a better performance than last season's 6-0. However, I'm not at all sure every week we get a bit closer. The West Brom game was a massive setback, in ways even worse than the Liverpool debacle. Besiktas was a setback too, and until Mason came on the Forest game was horrible, indeed embarrassing. I'd say compared to last season there's been both progress and regression, too early to call which way it's going IMHO.
Though IF we're talking just about the top sides then there has been progress overall so far compared to last season, though the City game was a step back compared to the Arsenal game, where Poch's tactics were better, albeit City are much better than Arsenal.
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glasgowspur
Luka Modric
The progress on the pitch may not be obvious but I take heart that he hasn't settled on a first 11 yet and is willing to change things up. There doesn't seem to be a playing favourites every week regardless of form or opposition.
I am a cynic a bit of me wonders if some of the players aren't being picked to make point with levy, give me rubbish and this is what you get.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
I am a cynic a bit of me wonders if some of the players aren't being picked to make point with levy, give me rubbish and this is what you get.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
My point in mentioning 4-4-2 with Paulinho and Chadli was in reference to your point about "the flak Tim would have got, had he got it as wrong as Poch did".
TS would likely have caused even more discussion because he would likely have not even had a Capoue or a Stambouli in the line-up, so our defence would likely have been even more exposed.
Anyway, we all love the game of guessing the line-ups and what our preferred staring line-ups would be against x opposition etc etc. What purpose would GG have without that, eh?
NaijaSpurs
Les Ferdinand
We are mentally fragile and lack bottle and backbone
Fair cop, you got me bang to rights there guv. All I can say in my defence is that I don't think Stambouli would have been exposed in the way Fazio was. But if people want to say that's just not a sufficient defence, fine I can't argue against that with the 'Prem debut' line.
wiziwig
Steed Malbranque
Our tactics and our naivety ........
When we're up against a superior opponent, I'd like to see us adopt a containment of the opposition approach, rather than be looking to slug it out with them from the off.
I also agree with Ray Wilkins, we need to stay on our feet a whole lot more.
Pundits talk about taking one for the team ... That means, take a booking when the other team is on a dangerous counter attack ( all the top teams do this ). If we're caught out on the back foot, then foul the opponent in the middle of the pitch, but don't wait until the opponent is in our penalty box before attempting a sneaky tug back or trip.
We also really need to wise up and understand that when we're behind by a goal, it does not mean we're desperate and that we should forget our defensive duties in search of an instant equaliser . On Saturday , with two minutes left in the first-half, and City leading 2-1 , everyone of our players had vacated our own half! This strategy resulted in a simple lofted ball over the top for Aguero to latch on to and forcing a save from Lloris at his near post . We could've been going into the dressing room at half-time, 3-1 down rather than 2-1, all because we're dumb fuccks.
When we're up against a superior opponent, I'd like to see us adopt a containment of the opposition approach, rather than be looking to slug it out with them from the off.
I also agree with Ray Wilkins, we need to stay on our feet a whole lot more.
Pundits talk about taking one for the team ... That means, take a booking when the other team is on a dangerous counter attack ( all the top teams do this ). If we're caught out on the back foot, then foul the opponent in the middle of the pitch, but don't wait until the opponent is in our penalty box before attempting a sneaky tug back or trip.
We also really need to wise up and understand that when we're behind by a goal, it does not mean we're desperate and that we should forget our defensive duties in search of an instant equaliser . On Saturday , with two minutes left in the first-half, and City leading 2-1 , everyone of our players had vacated our own half! This strategy resulted in a simple lofted ball over the top for Aguero to latch on to and forcing a save from Lloris at his near post . We could've been going into the dressing room at half-time, 3-1 down rather than 2-1, all because we're dumb fuccks.