Who is the best Spurs manager/coach of the Premier League era?

[punk_is_back`]

The fantastic players at Harry's disposal either weren't so fantastic before he arrived, or were bought under his reign. Both if these things (buying players and improving players) are a key part of a managers job. Anyone who uses the quality of Harry's squad to criticize him are just looking for a reason not to vote him the best. I love Martin Jol and he was a great manager for us and I'd take him back in a shot. But his 5th doesn't compare to Harry's 4th. To finish 4th we had to beat Arsenal, Chelsea and City away in the closing weeks and we actually did it, which isn't something Spurs fans are used to, so should be eternally grateful. Virtually every pundit and fan was urging Harry to play a defensive line up in all those games, but he did something very clever, in playing 2 passing CM's, but asked them to sit deep and look to play the ball to set up counters. That season we didn't finish 4th due to other teams being weak, but because with a lesser squad, we had a manager that made the difference.

The first time we finished fourth, we had arguably a more on form midfield, than City, Manchester United and Chelsea. Only Fibreglass was better than Modric. To me that was the position we deserved to be in, just like last season we had a better midfield than Arsenal and Chelsea. However in Jol's last full season in charge our two main CMs where Jenas and Zokora, lets not forgot how far we have come. These two players would not get into many midfields in the top 15 of the PL. To me 5th is an accomplishment, throwing away 3rd and 4th is a failure.

 

[Mulletperm]

Favourite - Jol
Best - Redknapp

 

[scaramanga]

Comfortably Jol.

He came pretty close to 'Arry's 4th place with a far inferior squad. I'd love to have seen what Jol could have done with the team 'Arry underperformed with last season.

 

[Harry_Perkins]

The first time we finished fourth, we had arguably a more on form midfield, than City, Manchester United and Chelsea. Only Fibreglass was better than Modric. To me that was the position we deserved to be in, just like last season we had a better midfield than Arsenal and Chelsea. However in Jol's last full season in charge our two main CMs where Jenas and Zokora, lets not forgot how far we have come. These two players would not get into many midfields in the top 15 of the PL. To me 5th is an accomplishment, throwing away 3rd and 4th is a failure.

True to an extent but the bottom line is that under Redknapp we finished above the likes of Liverpool (twice), Emirates Marketing Project (twice) and Chelsea when all 3 had outspent us considerably over the period . Who did Jol finish above that compares? Reading? Bolton? Blackburn? He had far more at his disposal than those clubs and even the managers that had gone before him. Although no doubt he still had more talent than them.

 

[joey55]

The first time we finished fourth, we had arguably a more on form midfield, than City, Manchester United and Chelsea. Only Fibreglass was better than Modric. To me that was the position we deserved to be in, just like last season we had a better midfield than Arsenal and Chelsea. However in Jol's last full season in charge our two main CMs where Jenas and Zokora, lets not forgot how far we have come. These two players would not get into many midfields in the top 15 of the PL. To me 5th is an accomplishment, throwing away 3rd and 4th is a failure.

Why were they a more on form midfield? Is it not something to do with the manager?

I can't express how much a love BMJ. I watch every Fulham game now he's in charge. He's in my top 10 Spurs of all time. But a vote for anyone but Redknapp is crazy. We beat the Champions of Europe FFS.

In the calender year before Harry took over, we actually won less points than in the calender year than before Jol took over. So in terms of where we were the difference wasn't as big as what is being made out. The key players in Jol's 5th places were King, Carrick and Berbatov. By the time Harry got here King wasn't the same player and was largely injured. Berbatov and Carrick had gone. So whilst it's often portrayed as Harry taking over a squad which was good enough for 5th under Jol, this really isn't true. If there was no Berbatov in 2006/7 we'd have been lucky to finish in the top 8. That isn't an exaggeration to reinforce my point. Berba was our key man. I think people forget the shambles which Harry took over, as he transformed things so quickly and so effectively. The truth is so many didn't want him at Spurs and were adamant he wasn't good enough, that they resent his success.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Why were they a more on form midfield? Is it not something to do with the manager?

I can't express how much a love BMJ. I watch every Fulham game now he's in charge. He's in my top 10 Spurs of all time. But a vote for anyone but Redknapp is crazy. We beat the Champions of Europe FFS.

In the calender year before Harry took over, we actually won less points than in the calender year than before Jol took over. So in terms of where we were the difference wasn't as big as what is being made out. The key players in Jol's 5th places were King, Carrick and Berbatov. By the time Harry got here King wasn't the same player and was largely injured. Berbatov and Carrick had gone. So whilst it's often portrayed as Harry taking over a squad which was good enough for 5th under Jol, this really isn't true. If there was no Berbatov in 2006/7 we'd have been lucky to finish in the top 8. That isn't an exaggeration to reinforce my point. Berba was our key man. I think people forget the shambles which Harry took over, as he transformed things so quickly and so effectively. The truth is so many didn't want him at Spurs and were adamant he wasn't good enough, that they resent his success.

Great post

 

[Baleforce]

i don't think anyone is questioning how well Redknapp did in his first couple of seasons, i think last seasons debacle is muddying the waters, it certainly is for me

if Redknapp had left 1 year earlier he would be my answer to this poll undoubtedly

 

[Jurgen the German]

People act like we were firing on all cylinders when Redknapp came in. We were rock bottom of the league and had a manager that insisted on resting King (by far our best defender) for the league games and playing him in the Europa League just so he could preserve his precious record in Europe. Redknapp cut that brick out straight away. He also identified our need for a DM and went out and got Palacios.

Honestly, I know he had a good players, but people act like Tony Pulis or Steve Kean could have achieved what Redknapp achieved. How comes Ramos struggled so badly in the league with most of the same players?

 

[billyiddo]

once again you're taking to opposing viewpoint to the extreme there mate

 

[Jurgen the German]

once again you're taking to opposing viewpoint to the extreme there mate

I accept that, but what I said is no worse than the anti Redknapp posters who claim he'll end up at QPR or in the Championship because that's "his level". How can it be his level when he's managed a team that finished in the top 4 twice? As for the he hasn't won many trophies arguement, how many managers in English football have done these days? Even David Moyes has won diddly squat at Everton, but that doesn't mean he isn't still a brilliant manager.

Jol had Keane in his prime
King in his prime and was available for more games
Berbatov
Carrick
An emerging and largely injury free Lennon at that point in his career
Bale- Who Redknapp got the best out of
Kaboul- Once again who Redknapp got the best out of

 

[billyiddo]

I accept that, but what I said is no worse than the anti Redknapp posters who claim he'll end up at QPR or in the Championship because that's "his level". How can it be his level when he's managed a team that finished in the top 4 twice? As for the he hasn't won many trophies arguement, how many managers in English football have done these days? Even David Moyes has won diddly squat at Everton, but that doesn't mean he isn't still a brilliant manager.

fair point, all id say is there's no need to sink to that/their level

i think 2 from 8 disguises the fact we had a squad that although unbalanced was not far away from being in a very good position - the talent was there but it needed something to bring it together, which Harry done by signing Palacios (one of the best timed signings we've seen) and a couple of others and Chimbonda 8-[ - hence our rapid ascent up the table.

 

[thfcsteff]

Jols my favourite and was very good, but Harry was brilliant. Harry wont be fairly judged and never was due to not fitting the profile most wanted in a Spurs manager. But he was easily the best and as good as any Prem manager. There should have been riots when he was sacked, but amazingly many of our fans were happy. For some reason lots of fans seemed to think that he in some way under achieved and made extraordinary excuses to support this way of thinking. Now the same fans will be make similarly extraordinary excuses to defend AVB if he continues to struggle, in order to suggest he isn't under achieving.

Jol was a far better manager than he was given credit for. When you look at the wage bill Arsenal had compared to ours at the time and the quality of players we have, it shows how utterly ridiculous the criticisms of Jol were. Fans should be banned from trying to talk about tactics and fitness etc. I'd love to have seen how Wenger would have fared with the squad Jol had in 2005/6, yet most of our fans and the board thought that the difference between us and Arsenal was the coach. Unbelievably the same happened this summer. Wake up, this game is about money and it's damn site easier to attract top players when you pay big wages.

All fans or just the ones you don't agree with? Genuine question...

As for the whole 'managers' vs 'wages' in relation to Arsenal thing, their wage bill has never been one of the higher-end ones. In fact you appear to claim that the difference between us and Arsenal wasn't the coach. Joey. We never finished above Arsenal with either of those managers. Great men as they were in their own ways and for different reasons (with one decidedly contributing to his own downfall IMO) they never finished above Wenger. Look, I don't want to argue, but this does need to be clarified.

 

[thfcsteff]

fair point, all id say is there's no need to sink to that/their level

i think 2 from 8 disguises the fact we had a squad that although unbalanced was not far away from being in a very good position - the talent was there but it needed something to bring it together, which Harry done by signing Palacios (one of the best timed signings we've seen) and a couple of others and Chimbonda 8-[ - hence our rapid ascent up the table.

Context is everything, but forget it mate, the likes of you and I are cast. I keep on trying to move on but then a thread like this pops up and the same stuff comes out.

 

[DHSF]

Easily Redknapp although Jol was the most likeable.

Harry gave me THE BEST years in my 25 yrs of being a spurs fan...

 

[milo]

As for the whole 'managers' vs 'wages' in relation to Arsenal thing, their wage bill has never been one of the higher-end ones. In fact you appear to claim that the difference between us and Arsenal wasn't the coach. Joey. We never finished above Arsenal with either of those managers. Great men as they were in their own ways and for different reasons (with one decidedly contributing to his own downfall IMO) they never finished above Wenger. Look, I don't want to argue, but this does need to be clarified.

They spend more on wages than us. Their top earners are on less than the top earners at Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea and Man United but their average salary is quite high and even average players are on relatively big money.

This is quite a neat tool. It shows that in 2010/11 (the last year figures were available) we came sixth in the Premier League wage table.

 

[thfcsteff]

Why were they a more on form midfield? Is it not something to do with the manager?

I can't express how much a love BMJ. I watch every Fulham game now he's in charge. He's in my top 10 Spurs of all time. But a vote for anyone but Redknapp is crazy. We beat the Champions of Europe FFS.

In the calender year before Harry took over, we actually won less points than in the calender year than before Jol took over. So in terms of where we were the difference wasn't as big as what is being made out. The key players in Jol's 5th places were King, Carrick and Berbatov. By the time Harry got here King wasn't the same player and was largely injured. Berbatov and Carrick had gone. So whilst it's often portrayed as Harry taking over a squad which was good enough for 5th under Jol, this really isn't true. If there was no Berbatov in 2006/7 we'd have been lucky to finish in the top 8. That isn't an exaggeration to reinforce my point. Berba was our key man. I think people forget the shambles which Harry took over, as he transformed things so quickly and so effectively. The truth is so many didn't want him at Spurs and were adamant he wasn't good enough, that they resent his success.

Of course, the greatest problem with your arguments is that it draws us to specifics, which are highly debatable, but if debated it immediately looks as though some of us don't 'appreciate' what Harry did for us, etc, etc...I think Harry Redknapp has become an impossible entity to discuss, because unless you say that everything he did was incredible, you will be shot down for being 'anti-Harry' and a ton of things that previous managers/AVB haven't/isn't doing as well will be picked up and thrown. '...Resent his success' Jesus man, do you really BELIEVE that any Spurs supporter resents success because of one man? That is genuine crazy-talk.
I'l tell you what I resent (and I've said it enough times) I resent the fact that the bloke couldn't keep it going, couldn't keep his eye on the ball and (ultimately) couldn't deliver on the enormous platform of potential success which he helped build. Harry's a clever clever man, a self-protectionist. As I've always pointed out, none of the big match defeats, none of the seasonal slides, were anything to do with him to hear him speak. It was always because of 'other things'...

 

[thfcsteff]

They spend more on wages than us. Their top earners are on less than the top earners at Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea and Man United but their average salary is quite high and even average players are on relatively big money.

This is quite a neat tool. It shows that in 2010/11 (the last year figures were available) we came sixth in the Premier League wage table.

I haven't looked at the table, but is it proportionate to the size of their stadium? I'm going to take a wild guess that it is. I would bet that during the scumbury days there wasn't much in it.

Actually what your table proves mate, is that Levy has worked a fudging miracle for us to even be close to the positions we have found ourselves in...a 36,000 seat stadium? Even the junior bindippers have a few thousand more than that!!!

 

[milo]

I haven't looked at the table, but is it proportionate to the size of their stadium? I'm going to take a wild guess that it is. I would bet that during the scumbury days there wasn't much in it.

Actually what your table proves mate, is that Levy has worked a fudging miracle for us to even be close to the positions we have found ourselves in...a 36,000 seat stadium? Even the junior bindippers have a few thousand more than that!!!

Have a play with the tool, it covers all of the Premier League years and Arsenal outspend us on wages throughout

 

[VermontSpur]

Comfortably Jol.

He came pretty close to 'Arry's 4th place with a far inferior squad. I'd love to have seen what Jol could have done with the team 'Arry underperformed with last season.

Completely agree. That's why he got my vote as well.

 

[VermontSpur]

And to preempt the inevitable "You just say that because you are one of the anti-Redknapp phalanx" comments...stop. Just don't. I have a huge appreciation for the work Redknapp did with us, and taking us to the CL and being able to watch all those great matches. I just feel that given MY FEELING about the relative strengths of the squads Jol had to work with vs. those Redknapp had tips the scale in Jol's favor about best work with what he was given.