Which party are you?

[Nexus1967]

+1 to what billyyiddo just posted. If when I was in my early 20`s and someone said to me "go to Poland with your missus work all the hours for a couple of years and at the end you have enough money to a hose at home outright" I`d have been over there like a shot. The other thing is that not much of the money they earn gets put back into this country. Minimal rent as they usually live 6-10 to a house shop at their local Polish or Lithuanian or whatever shop, money goes into a Foreign bank pay a lot less car insurance than an English person by the loophole of taking a day trip to France every so often so their Insurance is valid, the list goes on!!!!

Yes the work ethic of migrants is a myth, they are just out to earn a quick buck and will be off to the next place as soon as it looks a better proposition elsewhere

Rant over

 

[AuroRaman]

Absolutely astounding to read some of the ignorant generalisations on this thread.

 

[Papercut]

You can have a work ethic to earn more money lads, it's not mutually exclusive...

A lot of British actors go to the USA for a quick buck, paying less tax and using their money back home. It's where the moneys at in terms of their profession.

 

[AuroRaman]

You can have a work ethic to earn more money lads, it's not mutually exclusive...

A lot of British actors go to the USA for a quick buck, paying less tax and using their money back home. It's where the moneys at in terms of their profession.

=D>

According to some Eastern Europeans I am acquainted with, they have left or are leaving the UK because they can actually earn more back home now (dependant on profession).

 

[billyiddo]

of course but the number one reason that migrant workers get employed is because they are far cheaper than native people who can't feasibly work for the same money, not because they're super hard workers who put their British counterparts to shame - that's just a lazy cliche that people trot out

im no expert but it can't be good for the country, long term speaking, if you price British people out of working in specific areas of industry

 

[AuroRaman]

of course but the number one reason that migrant workers get employed is because they are far cheaper than native people who can't feasibly work for the same money, not because they're super hard workers who put their British counterparts to shame - that's just a lazy cliche that people trot out

im no expert but it can't be good for the country, long term speaking, if you price British people out of working in specific areas of industry

First bolded bit - Not trying to call you out, but is that an actual fact?

Second bolded bit - Why? If someone is good at something and is not a trouble-maker, they should be able to travel, live and work wherever the fudge they want. In my opinion of course. I am getting 'tongue-in-cheek' brick from Aussies in the TV industry moaning about Brits taking over the industry here. But that's because we are BETTER! Simple-as. Colour, class, creed and home nation should not matter anymore in a world which is slowly beginning to develop a global identity, rather than individualistic national identities.

Of course, there will be characteristics that nations have which we affectionately rip into each other for and is used to good effect in comedy. But with the ease of travel ensuring we can each reach almost any corner of the globe, what's the point in thinking along the lines of 'looking after our own' (copyright - BNP/EDL/National Front etc etc etc). When I think of my own, I think of any sentient being on the planet. Sadly, I am vilified for thinking along these lines...

 

[billyiddo]

obviously i can only comment on my experiences, working in construction for 10 years or so - ive worked alongside many a foreign worker in my time and they are no different to native workers. some good, some bad - some hard working, some take the tinkle - the stand out difference is they will be earning close to 50% of a British worker and so will be preferred

i disagree with your point about 'looking after our own' - a country, in my view, should aim to provide for the people that are born there - education, work, healthcare etc etc surely it's a benefit to any country to have people growing up in an environment where they feel they have a chance - which i don't think a lot of people grow up believing anymore - hence what seems to be an ever growing underclass which becomes a very heavy burden for the country to bare.

i don't have a problem with people coming to England to work and whatever, i just don't like the way that people are priced out of jobs in these circumstances. like i said earlier a foreign worker can work for wages that a native family man cannot compete with - hell it's not even about natives really - couple of Lithuanian plaster boarders i became quite chatty with at work going home because they couldn't afford to settle down in England because of the younger guys coming here and working for less money than they needed to live as a family here.

 

[Gordinho]

UKIP mad, bad and racist or the Tories running scared? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...tion-what-Ukip-candidates-really-believe.html

 

[Roy1983]

Ridiculous.

 

[Crawley]

UKIP mad, bad and racist or the Tories running scared? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...tion-what-Ukip-candidates-really-believe.html

Oh, without a doubt any UKIP supporter is a racist, homophobic, vigilante nutcase.

Because there are NONE of those in any of the other main parties.



Just one look at the smug pic of the author of that Telegraph piece told me what was to follow. I mean gosh, she gave at least 6 examples, so that must mean ALL of them are the same.

More brick journalism.

 

[Crawley]

First bolded bit - Not trying to call you out, but is that an actual fact?

Second bolded bit - Why? If someone is good at something and is not a trouble-maker, they should be able to travel, live and work wherever the fudge they want. In my opinion of course. I am getting 'tongue-in-cheek' brick from Aussies in the TV industry moaning about Brits taking over the industry here. But that's because we are BETTER! Simple-as. Colour, class, creed and home nation should not matter anymore in a world which is slowly beginning to develop a global identity, rather than individualistic national identities.

Of course, there will be characteristics that nations have which we affectionately rip into each other for and is used to good effect in comedy. But with the ease of travel ensuring we can each reach almost any corner of the globe, what's the point in thinking along the lines of 'looking after our own' (copyright - BNP/EDL/National Front etc etc etc). When I think of my own, I think of any sentient being on the planet. Sadly, I am vilified for thinking along these lines...

Lovely. So if we re-direct all the Eastern Europeans currently thinking of knocking on our door to NZ or AUS, that will be fine I take it?

 

[AuroRaman]

Erm...yes? I don't understand your point?

 

[Crawley]

Erm...yes? I don't understand your point?

You said you are happy to look after any "sentient" being, so I offered to send them all to you, so you can see what it's like.

Fact is, as Billy was saying above, the Eastern Europeans have come to the UK, massively undercut our workforce, but do not spend their money in this country. It gets sent "home".
It is taking money out of our economy, and that is NOT a good thing.

And they may work hard, but I tell you what, their standards are not a patch on the British equivalent. Not in my experience anyway.

 

[AuroRaman]

obviously i can only comment on my experiences, working in construction for 10 years or so - ive worked alongside many a foreign worker in my time and they are no different to native workers. some good, some bad - some hard working, some take the tinkle - the stand out difference is they will be earning close to 50% of a British worker and so will be preferred

i disagree with your point about 'looking after our own' - a country, in my view, should aim to provide for the people that are born there - education, work, healthcare etc etc surely it's a benefit to any country to have people growing up in an environment where they feel they have a chance - which i don't think a lot of people grow up believing anymore - hence what seems to be an ever growing underclass which becomes a very heavy burden for the country to bare.

i don't have a problem with people coming to England to work and whatever, i just don't like the way that people are priced out of jobs in these circumstances. like i said earlier a foreign worker can work for wages that a native family man cannot compete with - hell it's not even about natives really - couple of Lithuanian plaster boarders i became quite chatty with at work going home because they couldn't afford to settle down in England because of the younger guys coming here and working for less money than they needed to live as a family here.

I can't debate with that Billy, some excellent points.

My concern comes with an ever-growing feeling that the system we have created over thousands of years is a failure, in terms of labelling, exclusivity and a lack of our most powerful tools as humans. Love and empathy. I am very aware this comes across as wishy-washy and unrealistic. I am also aware i am in a tiny minority that thinks this way.

 

[AuroRaman]

You said you are happy to look after any "sentient" being, so I offered to send them all to you, so you can see what it's like.

Fact is, as Billy was saying above, the Eastern Europeans have come to the UK, massively undercut our workforce, but do not spend their money in this country. It gets sent "home".
It is taking money out of our economy, and that is NOT a good thing.

And they may work hard, but I tell you what, their standards are not a patch on the British equivalent. Not in my experience anyway.

I'm English mate, a Londoner in fact, just in case you thought I was Aussie.

Wouldn't you go to the ends of the earth to provide for your family? Or to provide a better future for yourself and prospective children? What should it matter where you do this?

Maybe we should check the figures and see just how much money gets sent abroad in this scenario? It's usually never as bad as you fear.

 

[Crawley]

I'm English mate, a Londoner in fact, just in case you thought I was Aussie.

Wouldn't you go to the ends of the earth to provide for your family? Or to provide a better future for yourself and prospective children? What should it matter where you do this?
Maybe we should check the figures and see just how much money gets sent abroad in this scenario? It's usually never as bad as you fear.

Of course. That isn't the point though, is it?

By allowing this free migration of workers, and the resultant change in economic processes, it is destroying that which many have indeed worked so hard to achieve for their family previously.

Have you spoken to any skilled tradesman in this country, tradesman who are pleading with customers not to have work done by the "under-cutters" because they are now desperate themselves?

I admire your compassion, Auro, and in an ideal, fair, equal world it would go down a treat. But that isn't what we have.

 

[AuroRaman]

I must admit I haven't. I know two tradespeople and they have both mentioned 'under-cutters'. One also mentioned of a correlation between the Wembley Stadium fiasco and the Russian Mafia!

Thanks mate, I understand the world doesn't work in the image I assume we all want it to. I do feel a bit lost in it sometimes and it makes my heart heavy. Probably why I disgraced the family by snubbing the business or going into law/medicine like the other grandchildren and became a tree-hugging musician!

 

[Roy1983]

I'm English mate, a Londoner in fact, just in case you thought I was Aussie.

Wouldn't you go to the ends of the earth to provide for your family? Or to provide a better future for yourself and prospective children? What should it matter where you do this?

Maybe we should check the figures and see just how much money gets sent abroad in this scenario? It's usually never as bad as you fear.

When did you last spend a few hours walking around London? Genuinely asking not trying to be funny. I don't mean west end either I mean wood green, turnpike lane, Harringay, palmers green and the like. You wouldn't be quite so complimentary about some of these people if you had recently they've got so much worse over the past 5-10 years. There are some lovely people who have come to this country to work, provide for their families and improve their quality of life for all their family and I've been fortunate to meet a lot due to my line of work. However, there are so many 'down and out' migrants who have no intention of doing this.

Working in a bookies in a lot of the 'poor' areas I've mentioned above I get a much better picture than many of here. That's a fact and it isn't nice walking around those areas at 10pm when I close shops in and around them.

Sorry to have gone OT slightly but it always seems to be people(and not a dig at you really) who don't frequent the above areas who seem to have no problem with foreigners as a whole.

 

[AuroRaman]

When did you last spend a few hours walking around London? Genuinely asking not trying to be funny. I don't mean west end either I mean wood green, turnpike lane, Harringay, palmers green and the like. You wouldn't be quite so complimentary about some of these people if you had recently they've got so much worse over the past 5-10 years. There are some lovely people who have come to this country to work, provide for their families and improve their quality of life for all their family and I've been fortunate to meet a lot due to my line of work. However, there are so many 'down and out' migrants who have no intention of doing this.

Working in a bookies in a lot of the 'poor' areas I've mentioned above I get a much better picture than many of here. That's a fact and it isn't nice walking around those areas at 10pm when I close shops in and around them.

Sorry to have gone OT slightly but it always seems to be people(and not a dig at you really) who don't frequent the above areas who seem to have no problem with foreigners as a whole.

Last May. My Mum lives fairly close to those areas and I spent the last 5 years living near Canning Town in Victoria Docks before I moved abroad.

Flipping the coin, you are maybe not so aware of other areas that have perfectly lovely migrants. Poorer areas sadly tend to be more crime-ridden or 'dodgy'. I don't think it's fair to pin that on skin colour or country of birth.

 

[Roy1983]

Last May. My Mum lives fairly close to those areas and I spent the last 5 years living near Canning Town in Victoria Docks before I moved abroad.

Flipping the coin, you are maybe not so aware of other areas that have perfectly lovely migrants. Poorer areas sadly tend to be more crime-ridden or 'dodgy'. I don't think it's fair to pin that on skin colour or country of birth.

That's where we disagree then. Also, of course there are nice people from all races.