What if Sol Campbel decided to stay at Spurs?

[DubaiSpur]

I think even if he did say he was going to Woolwich, the anger would still be there. Anyway, no sane footballer who knows the rivalry would ever say In public I'm leaving spurs and going down the road to play for them. In speculating had he stayed has made me think I couldn't see how our fortunes would have improved enough to make a difference.

http://www.tottenblog.com/2012/05/happy-retirement-judas-scum-open-letter.html

http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/showthread.php?647-judas

'Sol, you would have been a Spurs legend if you'd stayed, you still would have been if you'd left the country on a free, you probably even would have been if you'd gone to Arsenal and been honest about wanting to play Champions League from the start.'

There is considerable evidence to the contrary, mate.

 

[spitshine]

That's hearsay we all know, especially his persona would never had openly said in public im going to the scum.
Did he really bolster our rivals that much considering the team they had anyway. Are people trying to say if he stayed with us, they wouldn't have won the title twice. That's ridiculous. The point is from his and our point of view on the pitch his presence would not have elevated us to the next level.

 

[chicken_badge]

If Campbell had stayed and King had come through in the same way as he had then it would have been a helluva backbone for the club that could have lasted another 7 years. But Tottenham 2001 was very different from Tottenham 2013. The Levy Project was in its infancy and we didn't start building that until Martin Jol arrived in 2004, and even then it wasn't until 2005 that the roots of what we see now were in place.

I cannot blame Campbell for wanting to leave Spurs, for aspiring for more at that particular point in our history. Choosing to join Arsenal, and the manner in which he did, well that's a different story. But if he stayed, well I can't see anything that panned out in the next three years that would have suggested the club were going places.

 

[Neymar]

now that its a decade since his departure, i think we can, and should be able to see things more objectively.

although it hurts us that he left in the manner which he did, lets be honest, he was perfectly entitled to do so. since his departure, we have seen many more transfer moves of that nature. if anyone is to blame, it was maybe our board/management at the time. they could've done more to predict this situation and either sold him, or actually tied him down with 12 months of his contract to go.

as for him choosing to move to arsenal, well that was just plain unfortunate for us. but to be fair to him, he had to go there:
1) clearly he wasnt a genuine spurs fan (well at least not in the way we are. he is a professional footballer so that's somewhat understandable <we see a similar situation with Ashely Cole a few years later>)
2) if i remember correctly, didnt arsenal offer sol a world record breaking wage packet for a defender?
3) at the time, if he wanted footballing glory (trophies etc) in england, it was either arsenal or manchester united. so his options were limited. and he may have preferred to stay in london for familiy/personal reasons.

in regards to sol as a football player, for me, he was/and is the best ever center back there was in football history. he was a massive part in arsenal going unbeaten in the league that year. i remember whoever he was partnered with at his time at arsenal, he would perfectly compliment them. whether it be adams, keown,toure. look at toure now, he doesnt look half the player he was next to sol.
sol simply had everything you would want in a modern day centreback. pace. strength. arial ability. and good understand of the game too. i cant think of a similar player to him that plays at the moment. maybe micah richards. but sol was twice the size and was positionally far better than richards.

i just hope that some of the absolutely horrendous personal abuse that he gets will stop. and that we will still be able to appreciate his ability as a footballer and at least be thankful of his services for us for the years that he was with us, and for england.

 

[Superted]

That's hearsay we all know, especially his persona would never had openly said in public im going to the scum.
Did he really bolster our rivals that much considering the team they had anyway. Are people trying to say if he stayed with us, they wouldn't have won the title twice. That's ridiculous. The point is from his and our point of view on the pitch his presence would not have elevated us to the next level.

Yes. Apart from Campbell and Toure, Wenger's defensive recruits have been poor throughout his whole tenure and its no coincidence that their defence has got worse and worse the longer he's been in charge, as the affect of Adams, Bould, Dixon and Keown disappears.

Without their rock solid defence, they would have been no where near the team they were.

 

[raboner]

Anthony Gardner is the one who got away.

 

[Jurgen the German]

If you think about it, he actually made the wrong decision. Not to leave Spurs, he had every right to, but to go to scum. His chances of winning the CL would have been dramatically increased had he gone to United, Barca, Madrid, Juve, Bayern etc. Arsenal were always mentally weak and fragile under Wenger, even the year they went unbeaten. Whenever a team gritted their teeth against them. As Chelsea did in the CL that year, they buckled under the pressure.

 

[jts1882]

We all knew he would leave eventually, but the ugly process is what separates him from say Sheringham, Carrick, Berbatov and Modric.

He didn't refuse to play for us unlike two of those.

Just saying ... I agree its the lying that makes the difference, and places Campbell ahead of Berbatov and Modric, but let's not include those two with Carrick and Sheringham, who both behaved professionally.

If you think about it, he actually made the wrong decision. Not to leave Spurs, he had every right to, but to go to scum. His chances of winning the CL would have been dramatically increased had he gone to United, Barca, Madrid, Juve, Bayern etc. Arsenal were always mentally weak and fragile under Wenger, even the year they went unbeaten. Whenever a team gritted their teeth against them. As Chelsea did in the CL that year, they buckled under the pressure.

It always amuses me to hear the "invincibles" referred to as an unbeaten team. They would have won the CL if they were truly invincible. Instead they lost six games, including, iirc, twice to Middlesbrough.

 

[jts1882]

now that its a decade since his departure, i think we can, and should be able to see things more objectively.

although it hurts us that he left in the manner which he did, lets be honest, he was perfectly entitled to do so. since his departure, we have seen many more transfer moves of that nature. if anyone is to blame, it was maybe our board/management at the time. they could've done more to predict this situation and either sold him, or actually tied him down with 12 months of his contract to go.

as for him choosing to move to arsenal, well that was just plain unfortunate for us. but to be fair to him, he had to go there:
1) clearly he wasnt a genuine spurs fan (well at least not in the way we are. he is a professional footballer so that's somewhat understandable <we see a similar situation with Ashely Cole a few years later>)
2) if i remember correctly, didnt arsenal offer sol a world record breaking wage packet for a defender?
3) at the time, if he wanted footballing glory (trophies etc) in england, it was either arsenal or manchester united. so his options were limited. and he may have preferred to stay in london for familiy/personal reasons.

in regards to sol as a football player, for me, he was/and is the best ever center back there was in football history. he was a massive part in arsenal going unbeaten in the league that year. i remember whoever he was partnered with at his time at arsenal, he would perfectly compliment them. whether it be adams, keown,toure. look at toure now, he doesnt look half the player he was next to sol.
sol simply had everything you would want in a modern day centreback. pace. strength. arial ability. and good understand of the game too. i cant think of a similar player to him that plays at the moment. maybe micah richards. but sol was twice the size and was positionally far better than richards.

i just hope that some of the absolutely horrendous personal abuse that he gets will stop. and that we will still be able to appreciate his ability as a footballer and at least be thankful of his services for us for the years that he was with us, and for england.

Agree with most of this post.

On the bolded bit, the record pay packet was funded by the lack of a transfer fee. That is part of what makes it worse. If the record wages was part of his reasoning, then running down his contract and leaving on a free was part of the strategy.

The point about Campbell being a key player for them is spot on. Wenger inherited a fantastic defence, which he was able to keep together with improved nutrition and training, and was able to build a winning team from that base. Campbell was critical to keeping this foundation for a few more years.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

I dont hate anybody in life apart this one cretinous lump of brick, everytime I see his smug face on the tv I want to kick it in

I will hate him to his and my dying day, the bloke is a ****

I like to bathe in custard.

 

[Nutter-Naylor]

i just hope that some of the absolutely horrendous personal abuse that he gets will stop. and that we will still be able to appreciate his ability as a footballer and at least be thankful of his services for us for the years that he was with us, and for england.

Not as long as i have a breath in me.

 

[Raziel]

Sol did nothing in his time at Spurs that would counter his actions enough to ever justify anyone ever appreciating his ability as a footballer. 50 years from now, it will still land in the top 10 betrayal moves in world football (not just Spurs or England).

Re what would have happened to the club, I think Spurs turned around on it's management, basically when we got FA & BMJ, so not sure it would have made a real difference.

 

[indospurs]

We had probably the best CB pairing the season we lifted the CC. King and Woody. If we had them now, we'd be comfortably 3rd, even 2nd probably.

C***bell can go do one.

 

[SubZero]

He didn't refuse to play for us unlike two of those.

Just saying ... I agree its the lying that makes the difference, and places Campbell ahead of Berbatov and Modric, but let's not include those two with Carrick and Sheringham, who both behaved professionally.

True, but Berba and Modric made no secret of their desire to leave, and Modric even gave us another season, arguably his best one. Campbell didn't refuse to play, but then again he didn't have the time to (not saying that he would, mind). I agree with the poster who said it also could be somewhat placed on the management for not forwarding an ultimatum, but to their defence they bought into his gospel about loyalty and allegiance, if I remember correctly we even declined an offer from Man Utd for £20M (or some ridiculous amount) because of it. Even if the Bosman ruling had been in effect for a few years, I don't think the total shift in player mentality and power had been fully grasped by the clubs yet, and the player-club trust was still somewhat grounded. I don't think we had ever been lied to in that fashion before (or after), and Sol knew that we needed the money. Yes, by the ruling he was entitled to do so, knowing well that the other club (Arsenal aside) could offer a massive wage packet due to the free transfer making him one of, if not the best paid footballer in the UK. But he should also have been fully aware that the fans wouldn't see lightly upon it, to put it that way.

 

[Jurgen the German]

He didn't refuse to play for us unlike two of those.

Just saying ... I agree its the lying that makes the difference, and places Campbell ahead of Berbatov and Modric, but let's not include those two with Carrick and Sheringham, who both behaved professionally.

This

 

[spitshine]

But which loss was more detrimental to the team - Berbs or Campbell? Berbs for me. Think we gave Campbell to much credit IMO

 

[thfcsteff]

I let go of the deep-hatred a long time ago.

He strikes me now as strange, confused, odd...
I will never forgive his actions but if I allow them to continue to strain me then it's a lose-lose...

 

[Neymar]

Yes. Apart from Campbell and Toure, Wenger's defensive recruits have been poor throughout his whole tenure and its no coincidence that their defence has got worse and worse the longer he's been in charge, as the affect of Adams, Bould, Dixon and Keown disappears.

Without their rock solid defence, they would have been no where near the team they were.

I wouldn't be to harsh on wenger re his defensive recruits over the years to be honest. In my opinion, i think the manner and style in which arsenal seem to consistently let in some very soft goals over the years has more to do with the overall attacking style that the team plays. ie. they commit (too) many players forward regularly including defensive players, hence, it makes sense that there will be holes left at the back. Also, they play a very high line (traditionally anyways) with both fullbacks willing to go forward meaning that the centrebacks must be mobile. this means that they typically aren't the tallest, or best aerially. Because if they were (as well as being mobile), they would be truly world class centrebacks a la sol campbell.

also, apart from tony adams, the likes of keown, dixon, winterburn etc were not regulars for england. and only have a handful of caps between them. therefore, if anything, i would credit wenger for turning these guys into multiple title winners. in my opinion, the media has been giving these guys way too much credit. these guys were clearly average, and were made champions by wenger. not the other way round of them giving wenger the platform to succeed as the media so often like to spin it.

some of wengers defensive recruits include; clichy, campbell, toure, vermaelen, lauren, sagna, gallas. as well as defensive midfielders such as; vieira, petit, gilberto silva, alex song (now at Barcelona), flamini (now at Milan). on top of these guys, hes brought through; ashley cole, kieran gibbs. - some of the guys on this list are truly great players, and the rest are still top class players. i dont think its fair to suggest wenger cant spot a good defender personally. its worth noting also that the invincible back four was cole/campbell/toure/lauren. none of whom were originally part of wengers 97/98 first season.

Basically, i would more question wenger's approach to defending rather than his defensive recruits per se. As much as i hate to say it, Wenger has a good eye for spotting a top defender, explaining why he went for sol campbell all those years ago.

 

[Neymar]

But which loss was more detrimental to the team - Berbs or Campbell? Berbs for me. Think we gave Campbell to much credit IMO

i agree. altho i think it is more to do with the fact that berbatov was our attacking hub in a period where we were just off the top 4. and his departure arguably set us back a bit in regards to challenging that top 4 position again (although in hindsight, we were challenging again relatively soon). whilst at the time of sol's departure, we weren't necessarily competing for any notable league positions, let alone a champions league spot. so with or without sol, we would've been mid-table.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I let go of the deep-hatred a long time ago.

He strikes me now as strange, confused, odd...
I will never forgive his actions but if I allow them to continue to strain me then it's a lose-lose...

I agree Steff.

Whilst I still dislike him, I don't hate the guy like I used to. As you said, it's not healthy to hold on to hate like that.

Interesting how you described Campbell. Any chance all the abuse he got actually hurt him deep down? By the way, I think some of it went too far and beyond "football banter/hatred".

I actually dislike Thierry Henry far more, I know I'm in the minority on that one. He has always gone out of his way to have digs at us. I remember once he questioned why we celebrated when we equalised against them the day they won the league. What did he want us to do? Not celebrate the goal "yea.. oh, hang on a minute, Thierry says were not allowed to celebrate."