Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Raziel]

In a winning football dressing room you have a Hugo, Walker, Rose, Wanyama, Dier, Dembele, Toby, Jan and a Dele. Born winners. Absolutely worthy of winning a league title.

Unfortunately, you also have a Kane and a Sonny, with their clear mentality weaknesses.

Sometimes you have to see the wood from the trees, and forget the media narratives and the stats. Football is not just about talent.

When I look at this current squad, I see a fantastic mentality in guys lie Venom, Porro, Romero, Dragu, VDV, Gray, Kulu, Solanke. We also have a few precious ones like the previous regime of Son and Kane. I think we're all waiting to see whether Biss, Bents, Johnson and Udogie can grasp that nettle and get to the next level in mentality. I'm less sure.

Ange would love a leader of men like Hugo in his squad right now.

Winning mentality is the biggest red herring of football/sport

- Winning is a habit, so is losing
- City has the biggest collected squad of winners in world football right now and they are fudging lost, defeated the minute a goal goes in.
- Is Kyle Walker all of sudden not a winner? KDB? Silva?

Yes, you want players who show up, who run for you, fight for you but my personal opinion is they aren't winners/bottlers individually, it's when you get the right collective together and build on the right set of results, and yes, the manager and organization needs to show some level of ruthlessness to make players continue to push themselves, but it isn't anything more than that ..

 

[Muttley]

Winning mentality is the biggest red herring of football/sport

- Winning is a habit, so is losing
- City has the biggest collected squad of winners in world football right now and they are fudging lost, defeated the minute a goal goes in.
- Is Kyle Walker all of sudden not a winner? KDB? Silva?

Yes, you want players who show up, who run for you, fight for you but my personal opinion is they aren't winners/bottlers individually, it's when you get the right collective together and build on the right set of results, and yes, the manager and organization needs to show some level of ruthlessness to make players continue to push themselves, but it isn't anything more than that ..

City's current problems go back to the perfect demographic of the treble winning squad. They have been unable to churn quick enough to re-create what they had 2-3 years ago, but they can reflect on the trophies whilst they do, unlike us. It is quite natural what they're going through and a fantastic challenge to see if they can re-invent themselves and get back to prior levels. The reality is their squad demographic and structure is wrong in the 24/25 season. It happened to Fergie as well.

I do think you've proven my point though. You can have a winning mentality when you're top of the Bundesliga in a fantastic collective built to play around your own weaknesses. Way different from when you're in an average team against AC Milan after Xmas in the CL and can't be bothered to cross the white line with a winner's mentality. That's when you show your true colours, especially when the other players need you for some leadership as a senior player.

KDB, Silva and Walker are exactly right in mentality, even though they powers are massively on the wain. No way Sonny and Kane have ever been that. Ditto with Eriksen. It's one of the reasons why Project Ange is intriguing as he would love a Hugo, not a Kane (one man's opinion).

 

[Raziel]

Today's quote

"Now is the time we have an opportunity. In these next five games between now and the new year we can set up our season. Thursday was a great point for us because it sets us up for Europe, so we know we're going to make the knock-out stages. Now we have four league games to get ourselves back up the ladder and make an impact. We've got a massive Carabao Cup quarter-final to get to a semi-final. I'm not interested in anything else beyond that. It is an extraordinary situation we are in. Where we are squad-wise with the injuries we have and what we ask our players to do, these are extraordinary circumstances. I always think about these things, what's the long-term effect of it? It may relieve some short-term pain but if that means that people lose belief and conviction in what we're trying to do because we have found an alternative path that alleviates that short-term stuff, I don't think that's healthy and get us where we want to. I have always in difficult moments thought that if you stick true to everything you've said from the first day and you get through it then there is nothing holding you back. If you change paths, what's to say players or even staff won't then question further down the track? 'Well that worked back then let's change, this doesn't work, let's change again', and then you get into that cycle again. It's a fine line. You are always trying to adjust it with your current circumstances and certainly with us we've got some challenges but I always try to maintain that fine line to where you're not searching for something that's going to alleviate something short-term but going to affect you long term. That is kind of where I sit. If you're asking which end of the spectrum I sit, that's the end of the spectrum I sit. That doesn't mean I'm inflexible and you don't make slight adjustments but in tough times you double down on your principles because if you get through there's nothing to fear ahead of you."

 

[tommysvr]

if you can't take a rest and sit back at 2-0 when can you?

We took a pretty big rest for the first 15 minutes of the second half at Brighton

 

[tommysvr]

"in tough times you double down on your principles because if you get through there's nothing to fear ahead of you."

This all fudging day long

 

[thfcsteff]

We took a pretty big rest for the first 15 minutes of the second half at Brighton

Sadly so!...interestingly, I think that was a giant learning curve in terms of how to manage a game whilst still maintaining 'shape' of intention.

 

[thfcsteff]

City's current problems go back to the perfect demographic of the treble winning squad. They have been unable to churn quick enough to re-create what they had 2-3 years ago, but they can reflect on the trophies whilst they do, unlike us. It is quite natural what they're going through and a fantastic challenge to see if they can re-invent themselves and get back to prior levels. The reality is their squad demographic and structure is wrong in the 24/25 season. It happened to Fergie as well.

I do think you've proven my point though. You can have a winning mentality when you're top of the Bundesliga in a fantastic collective built to play around your own weaknesses. Way different from when you're in an average team against AC Milan after Xmas in the CL and can't be bothered to cross the white line with a winner's mentality. That's when you show your true colours, especially when the other players need you for some leadership as a senior player.

KDB, Silva and Walker are exactly right in mentality, even though they powers are massively on the wain. No way Sonny and Kane have ever been that. Ditto with Eriksen. It's one of the reasons why Project Ange is intriguing as he would love a Hugo, not a Kane (one man's opinion).

This is one of the reasons I believe Poch wanted to cash in on Eriksen and get Fernandes...personally, I think it is why he loves Romero. I think we're seeing why Ange loves the likes of Gray, Sarr, Bergvall, and most of all, Deki. There doesn't seem to be much doubt to me that Deki is the spiritual leader of things with regards to expectations. He wants it. I believe there's a growing lobby with him.

 

[Mrs Vert]

Today's quote

"Now is the time we have an opportunity. In these next five games between now and the new year we can set up our season. Thursday was a great point for us because it sets us up for Europe, so we know we're going to make the knock-out stages. Now we have four league games to get ourselves back up the ladder and make an impact. We've got a massive Carabao Cup quarter-final to get to a semi-final. I'm not interested in anything else beyond that. It is an extraordinary situation we are in. Where we are squad-wise with the injuries we have and what we ask our players to do, these are extraordinary circumstances. I always think about these things, what's the long-term effect of it? It may relieve some short-term pain but if that means that people lose belief and conviction in what we're trying to do because we have found an alternative path that alleviates that short-term stuff, I don't think that's healthy and get us where we want to. I have always in difficult moments thought that if you stick true to everything you've said from the first day and you get through it then there is nothing holding you back. If you change paths, what's to say players or even staff won't then question further down the track? 'Well that worked back then let's change, this doesn't work, let's change again', and then you get into that cycle again. It's a fine line. You are always trying to adjust it with your current circumstances and certainly with us we've got some challenges but I always try to maintain that fine line to where you're not searching for something that's going to alleviate something short-term but going to affect you long term. That is kind of where I sit. If you're asking which end of the spectrum I sit, that's the end of the spectrum I sit. That doesn't mean I'm inflexible and you don't make slight adjustments but in tough times you double down on your principles because if you get through there's nothing to fear ahead of you."

Well let's hope Levy gives him the time

 

[Kompakted]

City's current problems go back to the perfect demographic of the treble winning squad. They have been unable to churn quick enough to re-create what they had 2-3 years ago, but they can reflect on the trophies whilst they do, unlike us. It is quite natural what they're going through and a fantastic challenge to see if they can re-invent themselves and get back to prior levels. The reality is their squad demographic and structure is wrong in the 24/25 season. It happened to Fergie as well.

I do think you've proven my point though. You can have a winning mentality when you're top of the Bundesliga in a fantastic collective built to play around your own weaknesses. Way different from when you're in an average team against AC Milan after Xmas in the CL and can't be bothered to cross the white line with a winner's mentality. That's when you show your true colours, especially when the other players need you for some leadership as a senior player.

KDB, Silva and Walker are exactly right in mentality, even though they powers are massively on the wain. No way Sonny and Kane have ever been that. Ditto with Eriksen. It's one of the reasons why Project Ange is intriguing as he would love a Hugo, not a Kane (one man's opinion).

I thought you were being tongue in cheek (still unsure if serious). I see you put Dele in your list of "winners". Surely he's the very case study in a young lad with a lot of talent and the world at his feet bursting onto the scene hungry early doors before his career bets pi**ed up the wall as quickly as he started changing hairstyles, fast cars and fast women?

 

[braineclipse]

It's a little more complicated

- It's Vic, Romero, VDV, Biss (yesterday), Bentancur, Wilson, Richi -> the entire spine of the team is affected
- Gray, Bergvall, Moore, Dragusin, are learning their role in team and finding their feet at this level
- 10 out of a 25 man squad was not available yesterday

But the piece that is probably more relevant is we are a system teams, system teams can be more vulnerable to specific player injuries or just too many injuries (system breaks down), the extreme case of this is City right now. Pragmatic teams that can and do make major adjustments to system/style/formation can potentially take the challenges easier.

The big question/issue for Ange is not about compromising principles, it's about not playing something when you simply don't have the personnel for it, right now, we simply do not have the squad to play 90 minutes of high intensity football twice a week.

Yesterday was the first time I saw us take our foot off the gas in a controlled way, there were actual moments (very small moments) where we sat in a mid block, where we were happy to have the ball in our half and not rush. Was that instruction, was that players making choices, was that only because we were 5-0 up? don't know. My opinion remains Ange has to give the team the option of managing the game for moments until we have that full squad, until some of the youngsters are at a point where they can truly be trusted as part of the rotation.

Agreed. First team players missing, but also the amount of players missing leading to a lack of options and more fatigue. That also leading to us lacking good profile fits in some positions.

Finding good ways, within the system, to take our foot off the gas is important. But it's also really difficult to get right. A mid block still requires intensity if the game is still in the balance.

It's also more difficult when we miss key ball playing options deep leading to us keeping possession becoming more difficult.

 

[braineclipse]

Today's quote

"Now is the time we have an opportunity. In these next five games between now and the new year we can set up our season. Thursday was a great point for us because it sets us up for Europe, so we know we're going to make the knock-out stages. Now we have four league games to get ourselves back up the ladder and make an impact. We've got a massive Carabao Cup quarter-final to get to a semi-final. I'm not interested in anything else beyond that. It is an extraordinary situation we are in. Where we are squad-wise with the injuries we have and what we ask our players to do, these are extraordinary circumstances. I always think about these things, what's the long-term effect of it? It may relieve some short-term pain but if that means that people lose belief and conviction in what we're trying to do because we have found an alternative path that alleviates that short-term stuff, I don't think that's healthy and get us where we want to. I have always in difficult moments thought that if you stick true to everything you've said from the first day and you get through it then there is nothing holding you back. If you change paths, what's to say players or even staff won't then question further down the track? 'Well that worked back then let's change, this doesn't work, let's change again', and then you get into that cycle again. It's a fine line. You are always trying to adjust it with your current circumstances and certainly with us we've got some challenges but I always try to maintain that fine line to where you're not searching for something that's going to alleviate something short-term but going to affect you long term. That is kind of where I sit. If you're asking which end of the spectrum I sit, that's the end of the spectrum I sit. That doesn't mean I'm inflexible and you don't make slight adjustments but in tough times you double down on your principles because if you get through there's nothing to fear ahead of you."

Love this. Ange essentially spelling out why he's not changing things now.

Can agree or disagree with this of course. But goes to show that he's not just being stubborn imo. There's a method there that makes sense. If he can get through to the other side is a different question, but it's very much understandable that he's trying to do things this way.

 

[Baleforce]

Love this. Ange essentially spelling out why he's not changing things now.

Can agree or disagree with this of course. But goes to show that he's not just being stubborn imo. There's a method there that makes sense. If he can get through to the other side is a different question, but it's very much understandable that he's trying to do things this way.

It’s a bold strategy Cotton.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Well let's hope Levy gives him the time

Don't upset Hugo.

 

[Kompakted]

Well let's hope Levy gives him the time

I think he'll have this season unless we drop properly into the mire. I thought that was a possibility but the Southampton result showed that is highly unlikely.

Ironically our league form this season might do us a favour if we miss out on Europe. Should allow the club to concentrate on quality over quantity in the summer.

 

[Mikey10]

in tough times you double down on your principles because if you get through there's nothing to fear ahead of you."

Doesn’t always work…



Hopefully a better outcome for Ange.

 

[Muttley]

I thought you were being tongue in cheek (still unsure if serious). I see you put Dele in your list of "winners". Surely he's the very case study in a young lad with a lot of talent and the world at his feet bursting onto the scene hungry early doors before his career bets pi**ed up the wall as quickly as he started changing hairstyles, fast cars and fast women?

Dele was an absolute winner even when he was a younger player with us. He hated losing and would leave everything out there, whilst making key contributions on the pitch.

I think you really have to go back and look at the entire chronology of Dele Alli. The stuff with his mum and dad, the MK-Dons foster situation through to the series of soft tissue injuries, and the eventual mental health issues that haunted him. Dele had PTSD from his childhood which included sexual abuse and other horrible things, but still managed to be totally professional in his job. In fact, even when he was injured he worked tirelessly to launch his businesses that still run today. He wasn't out boozing and my guess is that he hates the stuff after having an alcoholic mum. He did like some finer things in life though. Don't recall many different women though. He wasn't a playboy, he just had attractive and intelligent girlfriends from what I remember. The medication addiction was a big problem, and he tried to lose himself in computer games to hide his mental health challenges.

I always remember when Dele was making yet another comeback from a hamstring injury. Roy Keane was having his usual pop at him for not contributing what he used to do in the team. Then Sky put the running stats up and Dele was top. He'd smashed through the 13km mark again, one of only a few players to do it in the PL.

Yes, prime Dele was a leader and winner on the pitch.

 

[Kompakted]

Dele was an absolute winner even when he was a younger player with us. He hated losing and would leave everything out there, whilst making key contributions on the pitch.

I think you really have to go back and look at the entire chronology of Dele Alli. The stuff with his mum and dad, the MK-Dons foster situation through to the series of soft tissue injuries, and the eventual mental health issues that haunted him. Dele had PTSD from his childhood which included sexual abuse and other horrible things, but still managed to be totally professional in his job. In fact, even when he was injured he worked tirelessly to launch his businesses that still run today. He wasn't out boozing and my guess is that he hates the stuff after having an alcoholic mum. He did like some finer things in life though. Don't recall many different women though. He wasn't a playboy, he just had attractive and intelligent girlfriends from what I remember. The medication addiction was a big problem, and he tried to lose himself in computer games to hide his mental health challenges.

I always remember when Dele was making yet another comeback from a hamstring injury. Roy Keane was having his usual pop at him for not contributing what he used to do in the team. Then Sky put the running stats up and Dele was top. He'd smashed through the 13km mark again, one of only a few players to do it in the PL.

Yes, prime Dele was a leader and winner on the pitch.

Good explanation. I do think my favourite iteration of that Tottenham team came with Dele and Lamela in the advanced roles behind Kane. Back in the day when Kane didn't have to drop deep to create due to peak Eriksen being there. We were animals in the press. Ah memories. Shame we didn't come out of that period with a trophy. We were so close....

 

[NickTB]

I gotta say, this did make me laugh

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[DubSpur]

In a winning football dressing room you have a Hugo, Walker, Rose, Wanyama, Dier, Dembele, Toby, Jan and a Dele. Born winners. Absolutely worthy of winning a league title.

Unfortunately, you also have a Kane and a Sonny, with their clear mentality weaknesses.

Sometimes you have to see the wood from the trees, and forget the media narratives and the stats. Football is not just about talent.

When I look at this current squad, I see a fantastic mentality in guys lie Venom, Porro, Romero, Dragu, VDV, Gray, Kulu, Solanke. We also have a few precious ones like the previous regime of Son and Kane. I think we're all waiting to see whether Biss, Bents, Johnson and Udogie can grasp that nettle and get to the next level in mentality. I'm less sure.

Ange would love a leader of men like Hugo in his squad right now.

Did Kane shag your missus or something? The way you go on about him is sad.

Anyone that puts in the effort to improve his game as much as Kane has obviously has a great mentality. Suggesting the likes of Hugo has a better mentality and is a born winner is laughable.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Did Kane shag your missus or something? The way you go on about him is sad.

Anyone that puts in the effort to improve his game as much as Kane has obviously has a great mentality. Suggesting the likes of Hugo has a better mentality and is a born winner is laughable.

To be fair, it is 1 world cup and 1 domestic cup vs 0 trophies. So there is a little bit of proof in the pudding - Lloris did get some over the line, including the biggest one of all.