Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[Bedfordspurs]

Quite possibly…. We’ve gone into the PL season we players under the squad limit. Either we’re brave, mad or trying to cut costs?

I think we have been naive and nothing else
Cost cutting maybe but that is just to have money to spend in subsequent windows
We don’t want the baggage anymore of having so many unwanted players around and that’s healthy
But we have left ourselves 3/4 short for this season

 

[Lilbaz]

1) it is true.
2) yes, it will.
3) I'm willing to give Munn the benefit of the doubt, he's only been here about a year.

Gray is u21. His amortisation won't count towards psr. He's not registered in the first team squad. He's on the b list.

 

[Kompakted]

Gray is u21. His amortisation won't count towards psr. He's not registered in the first team squad. He's on the b list.

There is no exclusion for u21 players, and it doesn't matter whether a player is registered on which list, the exclusion is that you can exclude "youth development costs" from the PSR calculation. £50m worth of transfer and agent fees to take on an 18 year old developed by another club and then plonk him straight into your first team match day squads - I mean you *could* attempt to justify that as a "youth development" cost in your PSR submission, but, the PL are unlikely to see that as a youth development cost and even if they accepted it was, all transactions are subject to a "fair market value" test - nobody spends that money on a player being signed for the academy.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Son isn't the reason we concede 2 goals at home to Wolves, 6 goals at home to Liverpool. Least of Ange's problems

Went back to look at the goals again. Son isn't involved in any of ours (apart from missing a pen), and is nowhere to be seen defending for any of the goals conceded (apart from standing off Trent and allowing him to cross for their first). You don't think playing with 10 men is a reason to lose games?

 

[Lilbaz]

There is no exclusion for u21 players, and it doesn't matter whether a player is registered on which list, the exclusion is that you can exclude "youth development costs" from the PSR calculation. £50m worth of transfer and agent fees to take on an 18 year old developed by another club and then plonk him straight into your first team match day squads - I mean you *could* attempt to justify that as a "youth development" cost in your PSR submission, but, the PL are unlikely to see that as a youth development cost and even if they accepted it was, all transactions are subject to a "fair market value" test - nobody spends that money on a player being signed for the academy.

Could? It's always been the case. Chelsea used the trick for years buying youngsters then selling them to get around the rules.

 

[billyiddo]

I think we have been naive and nothing else
Cost cutting maybe but that is just to have money to spend in subsequent windows
We don’t want the baggage anymore of having so many unwanted players around and that’s healthy
But we have left ourselves 3/4 short for this season

It's just part of the process of going through a rebuild - you have to knock things down to start again and is one of the reasons why i don't think we've ever really shown ourselves to have committed to doing so until now. We had a bloated squad that we needed to cull a lot of, which hampered us previously in terms of having to move players on before bringing new ones in - we're now actually in a good space going in to the upcoming windows, we have a low starting wage budget & space in the squad so plenty of wiggle room.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's just part of the process of going through a rebuild - you have to knock things down to start again and is one of the reasons why i don't think we've ever really shown ourselves to have committed to doing so until now. We had a bloated squad that we needed to cull a lot of, which hampered us previously in terms of having to move players on before bringing new ones in - we're now actually in a good space going in to the upcoming windows, we have a low starting wage budget & space in the squad so plenty of wiggle room.

Fully agree
But we need to see that in the next few windows

 

[Gazza]

It's just part of the process of going through a rebuild - you have to knock things down to start again and is one of the reasons why i don't think we've ever really shown ourselves to have committed to doing so until now. We had a bloated squad that we needed to cull a lot of, which hampered us previously in terms of having to move players on before bringing new ones in - we're now actually in a good space going in to the upcoming windows, we have a low starting wage budget & space in the squad so plenty of wiggle room.

Problem is I hope and pray that we don’t make the same mistakes over and over again.

We seem to overpay for average players and don’t push the boat out on players that could make the difference.

I love left field players coming in from the championship but i think we need a few solid players that can walk into the first team and not just challenge the bench or players that will have to go out on loan to get experience

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Went back to look at the goals again. Son isn't involved in any of ours (apart from missing a pen), and is nowhere to be seen defending for any of the goals conceded (apart from standing off Trent and allowing him to cross for their first). You don't think playing with 10 men is a reason to lose games?

Son tries to defend
He also tries to attack
His efforts there
But he can’t keep up with the pace

 

[Muttley]

It's just part of the process of going through a rebuild - you have to knock things down to start again and is one of the reasons why i don't think we've ever really shown ourselves to have committed to doing so until now. We had a bloated squad that we needed to cull a lot of, which hampered us previously in terms of having to move players on before bringing new ones in - we're now actually in a good space going in to the upcoming windows, we have a low starting wage budget & space in the squad so plenty of wiggle room.

It's also about what we do next. We have to execute the quality over quantity model, not compromise ourselves in the transfer market and end up with average players again and a bloated squad.

When you think about it, our squad is naturally going to become bloated anyway with a pipeline of 15 or so U21's that all have a case to progress into the first team squad.

 

[Muttley]

Son tries to defend
He also tries to attack
His efforts there
But he can’t keep up with the pace

You're being generous. Sonny is either too thick to get the concept of defending or he just thinks it's not his job. I think it is the former.

We play a 4-3-3 and he has defensive duties. We can already see multiple goals this season that would have not happened if he was doing that job correctly in his own half. Groundhog day.

This has been going on for a decade with the guy. He was a good presser in their half, but he's always been a shocking defender in his own half. I've not see one manager from Poch to Ange that has had a breakthrough with him.

 

[Kompakted]

Could? It's always been the case. Chelsea used the trick for years buying youngsters then selling them to get around the rules.

That's different. The fact that youth development costs do not count towards PSR mean that when you sell an academy player the entire transfer fee is recorded as profit. That does not mean paying out a huge sum to sign a player that happens to be 18 is excluded from the PSR calculation. Gray wouldn't be classed as "club trained" for example and if he happened to be available on a free transfer Spurs wouldn't be entitled to compensation due to developing him. I.e. he is not an academy player (although he will eventually be classed as a club trained player if he stays until he is 21)

 

[Batspur]

1) it is true.
2) yes, it will.
3) I'm willing to give Munn the benefit of the doubt, he's only been here about a year.

Lol. You really think Munn runs this club and makes the final decision?

How sweet. Would you like to buy some magic beans?

 

[Lilbaz]

That's different. The fact that youth development costs do not count towards PSR mean that when you sell an academy player the entire transfer fee is recorded as profit. That does not mean paying out a huge sum to sign a player that happens to be 18 is excluded from the PSR calculation. Gray wouldn't be classed as "club trained" for example and if he happened to be available on a free transfer Spurs wouldn't be entitled to compensation due to developing him. I.e. he is not an academy player (although he will eventually be classed as a club trained player if he stays until he is 21)

Chelsea buying the likes of de bruyne etc... then selling them. Was different how?

Gray will be classed as club trained.

 

[Muttley]

Chelsea buying the likes of de bruyne etc... then selling them. Was different how?

Gray will be classed as club trained.

Did you ever hear KDB's story about his infamous meeting with Jose?

Jose completely tried to gas-light KDB and put some lies, damn lies and statistics about his player in front of him. For a young guy, KDB read Jose like a book. He knew the stats were only the way they were because Jose wasn't giving him a fair chance. He knew he wasn't getting a fair chance because he wouldn't be subservient to his manager, a total requirement of the narcissist from his players.

So rather than get into a fight with Jose (narcissists love that), he calmly closed the meeting, called his agent and said he was leaving the club.

He just used the narcissist as complete motivation to have a phenomenal career after Chelsea.

 

[Lilbaz]

Did you ever hear KDB's story about his infamous meeting with Jose?

Jose completely tried to gas-light KDB and put some lies, damn lies and statistics about his player in front of him. For a young guy, KDB read Jose like a book. He knew the stats were only the way they were because Jose wasn't giving him a fair chance. He knew he wasn't getting a fair chance because he wouldn't be subservient to his manager, a total requirement of the narcissist from his players.

So rather than get into a fight with Jose (narcissists love that), he calmly closed the meeting, called his agent and said he was leaving the club.

He just used the narcissist as complete motivation to have a phenomenal career after Chelsea.

Nice. Although chelsea won the league that year.

 

[harr1984]

Yes - and they didn’t replace some of them, just like they muddled through for a year without replacing our star striker.

My point is that they will never spend the money necessary to have a minimum of 2 x quality players for every, position a la City. Without that this system won’t work, in my opinion (and I have my doubts that it will work in the PL even if they did).

I doubt we’ll agree though.

And which genius of a manager is going to get us to where a lot of (deluded) fans expect us to be ie top 5/6 and competing for honours in all the cups whilst we are at it? Even Poch struggled to balance when we was in the Europa League and the league hence why he often played such weakened teams and the number of teams competing for Europe in our league is far greater now than back then.

Fact is our squad is nowhere near deep enough quality wise, and either fans have to accept expectations shouldn't be as high as they are based on one manager in the past twenty plus years making at least a go of it, or if they do think that goal is achievable then should be looking at the fact it's not the manager that is holding us back. There's only so many times you can change manager and get the same end result before it becomes apparent they aren't the overriding issue....

 

[Kompakted]

Chelsea buying the likes of de bruyne etc... then selling them. Was different how?

Gray will be classed as club trained.

Chelsea bought De Bruyne before PSR was even a thing.

Gray will be classed as club trained if he stays here for 3 years. Before he's spent 3 years at THFC before his 21st birthday he's not classed as club trained.

 

[Lilbaz]

Chelsea bought De Bruyne before PSR was even a thing.

Gray will be classed as club trained if he stays here for 3 years. Before he's spent 3 years at THFC before his 21st birthday he's not classed as club trained.

Nope. Ffp was brought in 2011. De bruyne joined chelsea 2012.

Gray will turn 21 in march 2027. It will be during his 3rd season with us. So he'll qualify as club trained. Think the cut off is in jan.

 

[billyiddo]

And which genius of a manager is going to get us to where a lot of (deluded) fans expect us to be ie top 5/6 and competing for honours in all the cups whilst we are at it? Even Poch struggled to balance when we was in the Europa League and the league hence why he often played such weakened teams and the number of teams competing for Europe in our league is far greater now than back then.

Fact is our squad is nowhere near deep enough quality wise, and either fans have to accept expectations shouldn't be as high as they are based on one manager in the past twenty plus years making at least a go of it, or if they do think that goal is achievable then should be looking at the fact it's not the manager that is holding us back. There's only so many times you can change manager and get the same end result before it becomes apparent they aren't the overriding issue....

The squad is plenty deep to finish top 6 & balance playing in the cups.