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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Raziel said:
1. This is just an unfair take, No backup CF replaced with Solanke (record signing), Richi now backup CF, Solomon replaced with Wilson, Emerson Royal replaced with Spence, Skipp replaced with Gray, GLC replaced with Bergvall. Plus every piece of deadwood minus Reguilon moved on. Yes, we still have midfield balance issues but to say no improvement is OTT

2. Klopp did not tear up Geggenpress and he struggled basically until he bought Allison & VVD (they were too open, sound familiar?), plus 70% of Pool's squad got asthma. And lets not pretend Pool and Spurs are/were the same level (point other posters have made about expectations)

3. Fan comment, we are struggling to score so the suggestion is to drop the most clinical player in Europe (statistically Son outscores his xG by a greater margin than any other striker consistently over years). Adjust the system but dropping the two WC players is a hot take.

What does the ticket prices have to do with anything?
- are you saying that if tickets are cheap, people wouldn't care? people will always bitch
- are you saying we don't spend? we are #5 in net spend and for context, the only top 6 side that outspent us was United (the fact that Chelsea technically didn't is a whole other story)
- For what it's worth, the most expensive tickets in the PL are from Fulham (tells you how much fudge all that stat means)
- We backed the manager, Ange has been very clear that he has made the final call on every player.

Lets be clear, Ange may completely run aground in the next 10 games, and Gray, Wilson, Bergvall, Solanke may all not work out, none of us know. But that take after 4 games is exactly what the last 3 pages have been taking about ..
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1. So bringing in Odobert (didn't start last game), Spence (didn't start last game), Gray (didn't start last game), Bergvall (didn't start last game) and you think that's the required improvement for the team?

2. the assistant left before they even brought in Alisson, months before, Klopp realised change had to happen

3. Yes it sounds crazy but you can't play a player because of their xG outpeformance. Why did United shift Ronaldo, his record speaks for itself? Or maybe it's because the function of the TEAM is becoming an overriding issue. We played with Johnson and Son on the wings, absolutely neither capable of truly beating their man on Sunday at it showed. Son is 32 now, now is as as good a time as any to start planning for the future or would you rather do what we did time and time again like Lloris or Vertonghen or Toby or Dembele and realise AFTER the fact that we should have planned appropriately for aging stars?

Added on, Romero been at fault for nearly all our goals this season. Not saying he's rubbish but maybe a break after coming back in July ahead of season start in August he's mentally shattered?
 
Diamond Lights said:
1. So bringing in Odobert (didn't start last game), Spence (didn't start last game), Gray (didn't start last game), Bergvall (didn't start last game) and you think that's the required improvement for the team?

2. the assistant left before they even brought in Alisson, months before, Klopp realised change had to happen

3. Yes it sounds crazy but you can't play a player because of their xG outpeformance. Why did United shift Ronaldo, his record speaks for itself? Or maybe it's because the function of the TEAM is becoming an overriding issue. We played with Johnson and Son on the wings, absolutely neither capable of truly beating their man on Sunday at it showed. Son is 32 now, now is as as good a time as any to start planning for the future or would you rather do what we did time and time again like Lloris or Vertonghen or Toby or Dembele and realise AFTER the fact that we should have planned appropriately for aging stars?

Added on, Romero been at fault for nearly all our goals this season. Not saying he's rubbish but maybe a break after coming back in July ahead of season start in August he's mentally shattered?
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Who’s that assistant you refer to?
 
What is the plan? How do we expect to score goals? It's only getting worse.

We might turn this around and buy Ange a few more games, but I don't see a future here.
 
Weird that one of our big issues is looking slow and toothless in attack. Not what you’d expect from Ange’s professed style. No idea what’s causing it.

Taking one small example from today - Bentancur played some fantastic aggressive passes early on, then did sweet FA for 80 mins (until the Johnson assist). I don’t get it.
 
Mikey10 said:
Players don’t look bought in at all to me. We’re a really hard watch. It’s hard to turn a narrative like this once it’s started, but I hope we can. Felt for him in the post-match tonight; he looks shattered.
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I agree, I don't think the buy in is there, the players look scared to lose the ball and are not taking chances.

Also, a worry for me was when ever the panned the camera too him he was stood there motionless with his hands in his pockets.
 
Mikey10 said:
Players don’t look bought in at all to me. We’re a really hard watch. It’s hard to turn a narrative like this once it’s started, but I hope we can. Felt for him in the post-match tonight; he looks shattered.
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Weird, compared to how it was all going this time last season. This sort of system will always go to pot if the players aren't busting a gut. Hopefully tonight will be the catalyst for some good times. I really think we just need a jammy goal or two to help us along.
 
FatBloke said:
Weird, compared to how it was all going this time last season. This sort of system will always go to pot if the players aren't busting a gut. Hopefully tonight will be the catalyst for some good times. I really think we just need a jammy goal or two to help us along.
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Yeah, really hoping this is the moment it all pivots. I’ve got my doubts about him as a manager at this level, but he’s a really decent bloke…and we f ucking deserve some success!
 
Some good explanations in this article
www.football.london

Every word Postecoglou said on Djed Spence, Johnson, Bergvall sub and Odobert

Here's every single word Ange Postecoglou said after Tottenham's dramatic 2-1 victory at Coventry City in Wednesday's Carabao Cup third round match
www.football.london www.football.london

For instance:

*What was the thinking behind taking off Lucas, it was a substitution the fans weren't too happy with?*

I don't make substitutions by poll, mate. So, I'm sure the fans have got their own opinions, but yeah, Lucas, like I said that's his first sort of significant game time for quite a while. What I didn't want was us pushing guys over the edge today, that's why we took Destiny off at halftime as well.

We already had a couple of injuries, and I had some pretty good players on the bench that I thought could make an impact, but it doesn't take away from Lucas's performance. I thought he was outstanding tonight. They they're going to play a lot of football for us and hopefully getting through tonight, whether it's 90 minutes for Archie or you know, 60, 70 for Lucas, will put them in a good space.

*Can you talk us through the strategy of making eight changes because instantly fans are going be wondering about that with a cup run on the line?*

Yeah I know, but what I've always tried to do is what I think is the right thing. The best thing for us, in terms of what we're trying to achieve, and you know that there's no guarantees with anything you do in football. But what I've always done is back my decisions in critical times to always do what I feel is best. And if it doesn't work out, I can live with that. But I'm certainly not going to jeopardise what we're trying to build here by doing something that's going make me look like I'm in a safer position.

So we're always going to play these guys because we've got Europe starting next week. The last thing I want to do is is throw guys in out of necessity. We need to get game time and tonight, some key players for us got some good minutes that mean that when we do need to make changes moving forward, they've already played and they're ready to go.

*Is Destiny okay?*

Yeah, it was always the plan for him to play 45 tonight. He missed a lot of pre-season so it is a balancing act with him to get us some game time because he is not 100 per cent fit. Tonight it was always the plan to play him 45 and play Djed 45.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
What I don’t get are the random comments about other managers being great in certain situations which are just factually wrong

I’ve heard it repeated about Arteta
I’m now seeing that Poch made a great start to his second season
It’s just wrong and IMO these errors of opinions are what skew the reality
Below is Pochs first 4 games in season 2

View attachment 17673

Then his next 4 included a game against …. Qarabag

View attachment 17674

So where was this brilliant start he had ?
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This isn’t a Poch vs Ange thread. If you want to compare Poch to Ange I think @glorygloryeze has articulated the league comparison better than I can plus he also reached the LC final in his first season. In other words, He had credit in the bank going into his second season. But let’s stop this here because the comparison is between managers who have survived beyond 2 seasons and those that haven’t. The general point stands that the second season has been a crucial determining factor in the longevity of a Spurs manager. I would be very surprised, based on the past, to see Ange survive past Christmas if he continues on this trajectory.

Sadly, I thought we were was pretty poor again tonight. Coventry got through our defence time and time again while for the most part they looked comfortable at the back against our attack. But on the positive side, we managed to get through. A win though, does not hide how disjointed we were from front to back and this was against a mid table championship team. By the way these are the youngsters some fans are advocating we should play in the League, yet it was the much maligned senior players who saw us over the line in the end.

Look, maybe Ange will turn it around, I would love it if he did. And It’s not too late, but the signs don’t, at this point, look promising.

On another note I thought Dragusin once again showed his quality tonight.
 
DubSpur said:
We're not signing world class players, if you think that we are attractive for that type of player then you are delusional. The only way we are getting a world class player is if we buy them before they are at that level and develop them. We've done that very well up until the last few years. Hopefully we are starting to get back there and identifying players that have the potential to be world class (Bergvall) and getting them early.
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No mate, I am not delusional. I have clearly articulated my comprehension of how we do transfer business many times here over the years. I am fine with a project as long as I remember that! I love Bergvall, I love Gray.

But you CAN mark my card on this. If Ange 'fails' he will only be part of the issue. And if the heat starts burning Daniel a little too much, then trust me, Ange will pay. It will be unfair; here's hoping he succeeds, but for that to happen in this system, he is going to need a couple of world class players/leaders in their prime. IF we as a club ever want to get a sniff of the CL Final again in our lifetimes, we will need a two-track approach IMO.
 
Is Ange losing his glow?? Seems a bit aggy. I mean I would to be. Training these lot every day and witnessing what we are witnessing
 
Robspur12 said:
This isn’t a Poch vs Ange thread. If you want to compare Poch to Ange I think @glorygloryeze has articulated the league comparison better than I can plus he also reached the LC final in his first season. In other words, He had credit in the bank going into his second season. But let’s stop this here because the comparison is between managers who have survived beyond 2 seasons and those that haven’t. The general point stands that the second season has been a crucial determining factor in the longevity of a Spurs manager. I would be very surprised, based on the past, to see Ange survive past Christmas if he continues on this trajectory.

Sadly, I thought we were was pretty poor again tonight. Coventry got through our defence time and time again while for the most part they looked comfortable at the back against our attack. But on the positive side, we managed to get through. A win though, does not hide how disjointed we were from front to back and this was against a mid table championship team. By the way these are the youngsters some fans are advocating we should play in the League, yet it was the much maligned senior players who saw us over the line in the end.

Look, maybe Ange will turn it around, I would love it if he did. And It’s not too late, but the signs don’t, at this point, look promising.

On another note I thought Dragusin once again showed his quality tonight.
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It's the same senior players who also couldn't see us through in previous matches. We all admit we got lucky simply cos they couldn't finish.

Play like this again on Saturday and we are mullered. Even if we play like Leicester and Saudi Sportswashing Machine and still can't finish. We are mullered. Something needs to click into place
 
The Coventry game confirms for me that ange's strategies and tactics are sub par for some time now - since the loss to Chelsea in early November. Our pre-season performances (aside from results) were sub par.

We scored through the brilliance of individual players, but coventry was clearly the better team. Coventry got their players playing to their strengths. And this was sufficient to compete well against a team of disjointed but better players.

I am not sure who is at fault - Ange being stubborn and force-fitting a system that clearly doesn't play to the strengths of the players, or the players simply being uncertain of their roles and are unable to follow instructions.

I know that players like Son, Maddison, Johnson, Kulusevski , Bentancur like to play fast and direct football. They look happiest when everything is going with the flow. I also can see that there is little joy in playing for spurs right now. Very little communication on the pitch, even less encouragement.

I am also not confident with Ange's selection and sub choices but appreciate that injuries and his inexperience in managing a busy campaign that includes Europa might still be an issue - Celtic was poor in all their European games according to their fans.

All this to say that Spurs are in a very risky position right now with a coach that doesn't seem to be able to extract the best out of the players and the team and is blindly adhering to a few stats like possession and shots on goal. Its clear to everyone now know that we are too easy to defend against and are weak against set pieces and counter attacks - so unless Ange starts rethinking the fundamentals - system, tactics, personnel changes, player strengths, team weakness etc. I don't think we are ever going to convert all that possession into more goals and points.

Still not a time to call for his head. He can keep us at 5th this season I will advocate for him keeping his job (even without trophies) it is improvement (more games). But if we win a trophy and lose fifth with this brand of football, i think a new coach can do better with this team.
 
jabbathehut said:
Poch had Kane,Ericksen et all.
Who does Ange have that would be even good enough to get into those teams.
Comparisons are a bit unfair.I think overall some have a mistrust that Ange is good/competant enough to manage at this level and we aren't seeing any improvements/tweaks to his system of playing.That said we need to give the project time to breathe.I hope he makes it to a third season because it will mean we are on the right path.I wanted him as manager but i can hear the other points of views a bit more loudly now.Next 4 league games are crucial .
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If we could somehow first forward a year and see we are gonna be flying. Then I think we would all sit thru what we are sitting thru. I do still stand by him being here for season 3 regardless of how tit's up this season goes barring relegation fears and players tapping out. But I also feel our transfers windows need to be a mix. Not just teeny boppers.

And in GHod's name why is forester being used?? How we are playing with a goalie who can't dive in the same timezone of a shot doesn't help.
 
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