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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

tommysvr said:
The point is we weren't a "real force" 15 months into Poch's reign.

Their game plan was executed perfectly because they scored the one goal. One goal is all that decided it, and Spurs very much could have got that one goal. If we get that one goal, the narrative flips and suddenly all is rosey for us and Arsenal are 5 points off City, possible 8 after next weekend and their season is all but over.

I don't remember us "hanging on" either.
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I think we've all seen a lot of games against them where we have been hanging on. Either for dear life from the start of the game or at the very least for extended periods of the game.

Our ability to play to a level where that barely happened is a really good thing. Then there are details that need to be sorted out. Chance creation and defensive focus especially.

Even with that missing we made it a close game that could have gone either way. Isn't that quite good against an expected title challenger?

(As well of course as frustrating to see similar issues causing us to fall short again)
 
braineclipse said:
Isn't that essentially what Ange is pointing to as well with his belief comment?

Again I think part of the issue is having two wide players needing to be set up in rather predictable ways to be effective.

I thought Odobert played with the belief/risk/active approach when he came on. Werner too. I can understand this one being a bit too early for Odobert to start, but the Son and Johnson as wingers combination really doesn't fill me with joy when teams sit or are forced back and congest the middle.
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I agree with you on Odobert, he started the first two games here and was then dropped after a so/so game at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, he should be given a run in the side, players like Son have stunk the place out for months and gets the start every week.

Our wingers are too predictable
 
Legohamster said:
I agree with you on Odobert, he started the first two games here and was then dropped after a so/so game at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, he should be given a run in the side, players like Son have stunk the place out for months and gets the start every week.

Our wingers are too predictable
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Son has not "stunk the place out for months." He scored 2 against Everton FFS. Honestly can't believe I've read that. He's not been at his best but fudge me dead.
 
braineclipse said:
Isn't that essentially what Ange is pointing to as well with his belief comment?

Again I think part of the issue is having two wide players needing to be set up in rather predictable ways to be effective.

I thought Odobert played with the belief/risk/active approach when he came on. Werner too. I can understand this one being a bit too early for Odobert to start, but the Son and Johnson as wingers combination really doesn't fill me with joy when teams sit or are forced back and congest the middle.
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I think it was all killed centrally myself
 
thfcsteff said:
The single biggest concern I have is that some of our bigger players are not displaying the personality, leadership, belief and conviction in Ange's style of football to have a conclusive effect. The game on Sunday was there to be won; we simply stopped believing in the details of our football which would've helped us win it. IMO. Maddison has to do better, so does Bentancur, so does Sonny if I'm being honest, and so does Christian. These are BIG players, important players, and they have to lead.
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Same for me, as much as some concerns are creeping into my head I think some players need to show up a little more. Vicario needs to be clearing house on corners but the defenders are also guilty more so of switching off at crucial times, I don't think our defensive issues come from being gung-ho, we seemingly control the ball for long periods when they are switched on then one moment all too often one of them switches off, thats not good enough and goes back to my point way back about people taking accountability in the side.

Madders and Sonny are leaders even if just by age and they need to be picking games up by the neck, I don't think Sonny has been as bad as made out but equally he would get alot more props from me if he took ownership and in certain areas got his shots off, I can take missing the target if at least he is braver sometimes again, same with a few others.

Yes Ange needs to find the formula but the wheels are not off yet for him, but as I keep saying, if the spark into life does not come soon then he wil find it tough here, not least because the fans have become impatient and he will be death by Levy Proxy
 
tommysvr said:
The point is we weren't a "real force" 15 months into Poch's reign.

Their game plan was executed perfectly because they scored the one goal. One goal is all that decided it, and Spurs very much could have got that one goal. If we get that one goal, the narrative flips and suddenly all is rosey for us and Arsenal are 5 points off City, possible 8 after next weekend and their season is all but over.

I don't remember us "hanging on" either.
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We were actually in a worse place with pochs start second season
He got 3 points IIRC
The issue is that people will say they saw progress and he had an inferior squad … weirdly like our fans do for other managers of other clubs… rather than accept that teams can have poor starts and still get better if they are doing the right things
 
I must say, a lot of reactions on here have surprised me. We have made costly defensive mistakes, and still need to improve and be more decisive in the final third. But in spite of this, we should have beaten Leicester, smashed Everton, should have at the very least taken a point at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and wasn't really anything in it against the Goons. Yes, should have would have could have doesn't cut it, I'm not trying to make excuses but to me these are very fine lines that haven't gone our way, 4 games in, and over a course of a season these things flip and even itself out.

If there wasn't any green shoots, or any reason for encouragement I'd be the first to question where we are going but I really think things are going OTT here....
 
harr1984 said:
must say, a lot of reactions on here have surprised me. We have made costly defensive mistakes, and still need to improve and be more decisive in the final third. But in spite of this, we should have beaten Leicester, smashed Everton, should have at the very least taken a point at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and wasn't really anything in it against the Goons. Yes, should have would have could have doesn't cut it, I'm not trying to make excuses but to me these are very fine lines that haven't gone our way, 4 games in, and over a course of a season these things flip and even itself out.

If there wasn't any green shoots, or any reason for encouragement I'd be the first to question where we are going but I really think things are going OTT here....
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Well, I very much hope your are right and I'm wrong. And I'll happily eat my words if things turn out like that.

But, the Everton game aside, ( and they are utter brick defensively) At no time this season have we looked like scoring. And at no time did we look anything other than vulnerable to the counter. I saw all our opponents adopt the same tactics against us.

There are aspects to our game which are good - pressing, keeping posession etc. But we're not really creating clear chances and the high line plus our poor defending of set pieces means that every side know they will get opportunities.

As a lifelong Spurs man, from a Spurs family, I desperately want him to turn it round. But this system is not going to deliver. It is too easy to combat. And he seems to be unwilling to try anything else.
 
harr1984 said:
I must say, a lot of reactions on here have surprised me. We have made costly defensive mistakes, and still need to improve and be more decisive in the final third. But in spite of this, we should have beaten Leicester, smashed Everton, should have at the very least taken a point at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and wasn't really anything in it against the Goons. Yes, should have would have could have doesn't cut it, I'm not trying to make excuses but to me these are very fine lines that haven't gone our way, 4 games in, and over a course of a season these things flip and even itself out.

If there wasn't any green shoots, or any reason for encouragement I'd be the first to question where we are going but I really think things are going OTT here....
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The reaction across the fan base since Sunday has surprised me. I know it's Woolwich and I know results-wise things haven't been great so far. But it's been 4 bloody games of this season and we've been a great watch in 3 of them IMO. Let's stick with it. Give Ange the season at a minimum. Bring in someone new and the season will likely be a write off anyway.

There is no upside to twisting again. Ange can still get us top 4 or top 6.
 
DeanoAustin said:
The reaction across the fan base since Sunday has surprised me. I know it's Woolwich and I know results-wise things haven't been great so far. But it's been 4 bloody games of this season and we've been a great watch in 3 of them IMO. Let's stick with it. Give Ange the season at a minimum. Bring in someone new and the season will likely be a write off anyway.

There is no upside to twisting again. Ange can still get us top 4 or top 6.
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Yeh this for me, I keep saying it but I just ain't seeing this end of days you get from managers when they are close to the sack vibe from us or the team, not to the reactions we seem to be seeing
 
thfcsteff said:
The single biggest concern I have is that some of our bigger players are not displaying the personality, leadership, belief and conviction in Ange's style of football to have a conclusive effect. The game on Sunday was there to be won; we simply stopped believing in the details of our football which would've helped us win it. IMO. Maddison has to do better, so does Bentancur, so does Sonny if I'm being honest, and so does Christian. These are BIG players, important players, and they have to lead.
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My worry is that the more 'established' players have lost faith in the system more and more as time has gone on...
In fact, no-one seems to have improved since last Autumn, save for maybe Richarlison when he went on his purple patch, and even that might be debatable (as in whether he 'improved' as such...)
 
N22 said:
I desperately want him to turn it round.
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Sorry, what does he need to turn around? We finished 5th last season and have played 4 fudging games this season.

Time to take another break from this site and the nonsense of being a Spurs fan. It's just all so pathetic.
 
N22 said:
Well, I very much hope your are right and I'm wrong. And I'll happily eat my words if things turn out like that.

But, the Everton game aside, ( and they are utter brick defensively) At no time this season have we looked like scoring. And at no time did we look anything other than vulnerable to the counter. I saw all our opponents adopt the same tactics against us.

There are aspects to our game which are good - pressing, keeping posession etc. But we're not really creating clear chances and the high line plus our poor defending of set pieces means that every side know they will get opportunities.

As a lifelong Spurs man, from a Spurs family, I desperately want him to turn it round. But this system is not going to deliver. It is too easy to combat. And he seems to be unwilling to try anything else.
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Did you think we looked vulnerable to counter attacks against Arsenal? I mean they had one or chances from that perhaps? I thought we looked about as solid as an attacking team playing a high press can look.

The way I see it the opponents having to adapt to us is a good thing. We haven't seen the benefits of that yet this season in terms of results, but we forcing even big teams to play the game on our conditions is a good thing for me at least.

Chance creation is a problem, we agree, Ange seems to agree. If we could improve that even without improving anything else that would make a big difference.
 
tommysvr said:
Sorry, what does he need to turn around? We finished 5th last season and have played 4 fudging games this season.

Time to take another break from this site and the nonsense of being a Spurs fan. It's just all so pathetic.
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You really don't like a difference of opinion do you Tommy?

Maybe he means a turn around from the midtable form of the last 32 games.

By the way, I do back Ange and hope he succeeds but the concerns people have are genuine.
 
glorygloryeze said:
My worry is that the more 'established' players have lost faith in the system more and more as time has gone on...
In fact, no-one seems to have improved since last Autumn, save for maybe Richarlison when he went on his purple patch, and even that might be debatable (as in whether he 'improved' as such...)
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Last autumn was a purple patch for the entire team of sorts. A lot of things were going our way, confidence oozing in the players, mood couldn't have been better.

This season compared to the second half of last season I think we have improved our performances, but not our results so far.
 
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