We have finally found Van Der Vaart's best position

[ArcspacE]

No - I'd simply substiture Sandro for Lennon is the latter is fit for Sunderland

Never disagreed Sandro stayed more in the middle yesterday but in my opinion we still held a 4-4-1-1 most of the time

 

[SUIYHA]

FWIW, I'd stick with what we started with against Swansea. Sessegnon, McClean and Larsson are in good form, I'd like another DM in the mix to make things difficult for them. Then bring on Lennon's pace against tired legs to hit them on the counter in the second half.

Against Norwich at home, Lennon starts.

 

[Kingdawson]

FWIW, I'd stick with what we started with against Swansea. Sessegnon, McClean and Larsson are in good form, I'd like another DM in the mix to make things difficult for them. Then bring on Lennon's pace against tired legs to hit them on the counter in the second half.

Against Norwich at home, Lennon starts.

Agreed.

 

[1882]

Seeing as we're away, maybe packing the CM with Sandro/Parker/Modric wouldn't be a bad idea for the first hour or so... see how we're doing... if we're losing, maybe bring on Defoe/Lennon to add a bit on unpredictability... if it's pretty even and looking for the win, maybe just bringing Lennon on again could do the trick - as it did yesterday - if we're looking to hold on to what we've got, keep it as it is; solid, packed and tight...

fudge me it's all to lay for again innit?

makes you realise how well we've done in the first 3/4trs of the season that a 7 game win-less streak STILL sees us level on points with 3rd when we DO finally win!

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

FWIW, I'd stick with what we started with against Swansea. Sessegnon, McClean and Larsson are in good form, I'd like another DM in the mix to make things difficult for them. Then bring on Lennon's pace against tired legs to hit them on the counter in the second half.

Against Norwich at home, Lennon starts.

We had a great record away from home with 4-4-2. Sunderland are tough opposition, so let's not give them the ball and let's go at them from the word go. I want us to play our strongest team and let them worry about us.

 

[colin fishwick]

First good game in a while for VdV. So a little early to talk about his best position. Reckion we would have one with quite a few combinations. We would have won with 442 Lennon and Bale out wide Modric & Parker in the middle and Ade and Defoe up top.

We were not ahead with the 2 DM on the middle, just as we weren't against Bolton. We really should be beating Swansea at home, quitev easily. We do not have a good record at all playing with 2 DM.

 

[Park Lane James]

I disagree, I think his best position is just off the striker - and when Lennon is back in the team there is absolutely no point in playing Rafa on the right wing.

 

[SUIYHA]

First good game in a while for VdV. So a little early to talk about his best position.

Thought he played well against Chelsea and Bolton too. In the RWF role.

We were not ahead with the 2 DM on the middle, just as we weren't against Bolton. We really should be beating Swansea at home, quitev easily. We do not have a good record at all playing with 2 DM.

We went 1-0 up with two DMs, and we were all over them in the first half using this formation. I thought their goal came against the run of play personally. We also played this formation at Stamford Bridge and shat all over them, if we'd scored some of the sitters that came our way (missing them was nothing to do with the formation) then we'd have thrashed them.

Away from home against Sunderland is a different kettle of fish to a home game.

 

[SUIYHA]

I disagree, I think his best position is just off the striker - and when Lennon is back in the team there is absolutely no point in playing Rafa on the right wing.

For the reasons I mentioned before. When he plays behind the striker he often drops too deep and leaves the striker isolated all on his own. It's ok if you drop deep and you're fast enough to sprint back up when your striker is holding up the ball, but Rafa isn't.

When he plays out wide, as a wing forward not a winger, the role requires a player who roams around a bit more often, which suits him nicely. It allows him to cut in on his left foot and to get shots and crosses in on goal, as well as picking out the runs of Bale and Ade. Lennon is your traditional pacey winger, but lots of the best 4-3-3s have had a slower, more technical wing-forward on the opposite side to his natural foot. Think Joe Cole at Mourinho's Chelsea, or Mata now,

 

[liquid_football]

The reason we were very good yesterday was because Swansea left their full back to handle Bale alone and Bale ripped him to pieces.If they double up on Bale(just like Chelsea did) we simply stop creating chances.
If Lennon is fit,he has to play.

If we had Dani Alves then VdV at RWF would make alot of sense,but Walker is not good enough attacking wise to provide an outlet on the right side.

 

[Modric THFC]

For the reasons I mentioned before. When he plays behind the striker he often drops too deep and leaves the striker isolated all on his own. It's ok if you drop deep and you're fast enough to sprint back up when your striker is holding up the ball, but Rafa isn't.

When he plays out wide, as a wing forward not a winger, the role requires a player who roams around a bit more often, which suits him nicely. It allows him to cut in on his left foot and to get shots and crosses in on goal, as well as picking out the runs of Bale and Ade. Lennon is your traditional pacey winger, but lots of the best 4-3-3s have had a slower, more technical wing-forward on the opposite side to his natural foot. Think Joe Cole at Mourinho's Chelsea, or Mata now,

VdV best position is centrally behind the main striker not out on the right. His goal scoring tally in the two position illustrates this.
Strangely Cole and Mata are both number 10s that have been stuck out wide because they didn't fit into a formation.
The best wide players in 433 are quick players ala barcelona not converted number 10s.

 

[totman]

Rest no one.

Strongest team possible for Sunderland, then ditto for Norwich.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Rest no one.

Strongest team possible for Sunderland, then ditto for Norwich.

And then we can line up from the games after that with our academy lads because everyone's picked up a twang.

Nah, squad rotation is key, and I'm glad Harry is finally grasping the point. We have enough good players to win both games if we put the effort in.

Sunderland;

Friedel, Walker, Gallas, Kaboul, BAE, VdV, Livermore, Modric, Parker, Bale, Ade.

With Lennon in for Parker/Livermore and a switch to a 4-4-1-1 if we're not firing, and

Norwich;

Friedel, Walker, King, Kaboul, BAE, Lennon, Sandro, Modric, Bale, Ade, Defoe.

With VdV in for Defoe and Parker in for Sandro if we're not firing.

 

[braineclipse]

VdV best position is centrally behind the main striker not out on the right. His goal scoring tally in the two position illustrates this.
Strangely Cole and Mata are both number 10s that have been stuck out wide because they didn't fit into a formation.
The best wide players in 433 are quick players ala barcelona not converted number 10s.

Do you have a stat showing his goals scored in those positions?

I remember him scoring a few from the right in the past, another goal against Swansea. I think he's quite good on the right, and a lot better now that his defensive work has improved a bit in the last 3-4 months.

Pace is obviously nice, and always a positive, but it's not absolutely necessarry.

 

[Hootnow]

VDV doesn't even play that often on the right. I swear his record there last season was something like 8 goals in 6 games as well.

 

[Kingdawson]

Yep that is correct

 

[Gutter Boy]

Rafa's always been a #10. Playing him on the wing is foolish. Centre of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1, or right of the 2 in a 4-3-2-1 should be his only positions.

And he's almost always top of our ground covered stat, even when he's played 75 minutes compared to others' 90.

 

[braineclipse]

Rafa's always been a #10. Playing him on the wing is foolish. Centre of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1, or right of the 2 in a 4-3-2-1 should be his only positions.

And he's almost always top of our ground covered stat, even when he's played 75 minutes compared to others' 90.

He is not being played "on the wing". He is being played wide, but drifting all over the place, doing what he does. His goals and overall contribution points towards playing him on the right being quite good.

What is the difference between the position role he had against Swansea and "on the right of the 2 in a 4-3-2-1"?

 

[colin fishwick]

Thought he played well against Chelsea and Bolton too. In the RWF role.



We went 1-0 up with two DMs, and we were all over them in the first half using this formation. I thought their goal came against the run of play personally. We also played this formation at Stamford Bridge and shat all over them, if we'd scored some of the sitters that came our way (missing them was nothing to do with the formation) then we'd have thrashed them.

Away from home against Sunderland is a different kettle of fish to a home game.

We were poor first half against Chelsea, missing the sitters has a lot to do with playing 2 DM, Sandro and Parker never score you are make goals less likely. 2 of your 6 attackers are non scorers, that is significant.

As soon as Defoe came on against Bolton , we looked more likely to score. He gets a corner with a good turn and shot, then goal. Soon after that he sets up Bale with a perfect pass.

Parker and Sandro , don't do that.

 

[Gutter Boy]

He is not being played "on the wing". He is being played wide, but drifting all over the place, doing what he does. His goals and overall contribution points towards playing him on the right being quite good.

What is the difference between the position role he had against Swansea and "on the right of the 2 in a 4-3-2-1"?

He did play on the right of the 2 in a 4-3-2-1 against Swansea. He and Bale had pretty free roles in front of a solid CM trio. Bale choose to play wider, but that's just where he found room to exploit. When we played the same way/team against Norwich in December, Bale found more room coming into the centre more like Rafa.

Playing Rafa RM in a 4-4-2 with 2 forwards is where it all goes wrong.