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We are the worst for diving!

Jordinho said:
The game has gotten faster and the amount of cheating has increased IMO.
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I agree. The media also give a lot more attention to incorrect decisions. One referee is in the spotlight at the beginning of every week.
 
milo said:
I agree. The media also give a lot more attention to incorrect decisions. One referee is in the spotlight at the beginning of every week.
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I'm really fed up with pundits. All they talk about is mistakes, unless they're ****ing to the latest flavour of the month.
 
Things have gotten skewed. It's one thing in a "taking one for the team" professional foul resulting in a yellow, or even hauling an opponent down in a last ditch to prevent a goal knowing you're going to get a sure red. But taking a professional tumble inside the penalty box is plain cheating. It is unsporting and dishonest, and if defenders get heavily punished for their actions, the same should apply to strikers.

The way things stand it is easier for a Referee to send off a Michael Dawson or even John Terry for denying a goal scoring opportunity, than it is to send off a Luis Suarez for falling over and trying to con him in attempt to win a game. I appreciate that Refs have difficult decisions to make, and as has been suggested in this thread retrospective action should be taken.

What do you all think of retrospectively disallowing a goal if it arose from a dive?
 
I don't think you can go down the path of adjusting scorelines and results retrospectively, not at all. That way lies madness.

Edit: I think the real answer is obvious, and that's to use the available technology to assist the referee to make the correct decision in the first place, but, given that that isn't likely to happen, then retrospective action against a deliberate dive to win a penalty is the minimum we should ask for, IMO.
 
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nelto said:
It's one thing in a "taking one for the team" professional foul resulting in a yellow, or even hauling an opponent down in a last ditch to prevent a goal knowing you're going to get a sure red. But taking a professional tumble inside the penalty box is plain cheating. It is unsporting and dishonest, and if defenders get heavily punished for their actions, the same should apply to strikers.
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The point i've been (poorly) trying to make is that I don't think these 2 offences should be treated any differently, neither are intrinsically better or worse than the other imo. They are both "plain cheating" and should be dealt with the same way.

I read a piece by Guillem Balague where he suggested that in Spain and some SA countries the physical route of fouling an opponent is seen as a far worse crime than a little sleight of foot to get a set piece.
 
nelto said:
Things have gotten skewed. It's one thing in a "taking one for the team" professional foul resulting in a yellow, or even hauling an opponent down in a last ditch to prevent a goal knowing you're going to get a sure red. But taking a professional tumble inside the penalty box is plain cheating. It is unsporting and dishonest, and if defenders get heavily punished for their actions, the same should apply to strikers.

The way things stand it is easier for a Referee to send off a Michael Dawson or even John Terry for denying a goal scoring opportunity, than it is to send off a Luis Suarez for falling over and trying to con him in attempt to win a game. I appreciate that Refs have difficult decisions to make, and as has been suggested in this thread retrospective action should be taken.

What do you all think of retrospectively disallowing a goal if it arose from a dive?
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I think that it would be wrong to change the result of a game after the event. It makes for a poorer spectator experience and would set a dangerous precedent.
 
milo said:
I think that it would be wrong to change the result of a game after the event. It makes for a poorer spectator experience and would set a dangerous precedent.
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Yeah, I would agree, I was just throwing it out there. Although it could make for some interesting post match reactions.
 
galeforce said:
The point i've been (poorly) trying to make is that I don't think these 2 offences should be treated any differently, neither are intrinsically better or worse than the other imo. They are both "plain cheating" and should be dealt with the same way.

I read a piece by Guillem Balague where he suggested that in Spain and some SA countries the physical route of fouling an opponent is seen as a far worse crime than a little sleight of foot to get a set piece.
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There are also several very physical South American national teams.

Fouls and violent conduct are a lot easier for a referee to spot during the game and we already have retrospective action for violent conduct. Diving is very difficult for a referee to spot and they are under immense pressure not to send off big name attacking players. A ref who incorrectly sent off a big name player for diving would be hung out to dry in the media. I think that retrospective action would lift pressure on the ref and would be an effective deterrent against players cheating.
 
galeforce said:
The point i've been (poorly) trying to make is that I don't think these 2 offences should be treated any differently, neither are intrinsically better or worse than the other imo. They are both "plain cheating" and should be dealt with the same way.

I read a piece by Guillem Balague where he suggested that in Spain and some SA countries the physical route of fouling an opponent is seen as a far worse crime than a little sleight of foot to get a set piece.
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I do agree that they are both cheating, but what I am getting at, is that strikers are getting away with it, but defenders aren't. But I think we're both on the same lines.
 
I have to agree with whoever said it first, it's a no brainer, retrospective 3 game ban for diving, voted on by a panel of ex-pros. Second offense get's a 5 game ban, then 7 and then 10 games for every offense after that. It would be stopped within a season, 2 at the most.

It'll never happen because it undermines the refs, forget how stupid they look whenever someone cons them but heaven forbid we should offer a bit of support.

In relation to the OP, at least half of those Bale ones were genuine fouls, he just got his card marked early on and never got anything after that.
 
Not a serious suggestion, but would love for the ref to be able to award a pen to the opposition if he's convinced it was a dive.

Now THAT would be fun!
 
I don't think its a case of Spurs being the worst for diving, we have just been penalised more often. You think about the serial offenders who should have far more bookings but the ref waves play on and no action is taken.
 
you'd need some kind of appeals process for retrospective bans surely, and I wouldn't envy the panel defining where the line between simulation and gravitation is
 
May be the most penalised but are far from the worst - only need to watch the likes of United/Arsenal a few times to see what their players get away with every game.

Retrospective 1 game bans would get my vote for a more suitable punishment
 
galeforce said:
The point i've been (poorly) trying to make is that I don't think these 2 offences should be treated any differently, neither are intrinsically better or worse than the other imo. They are both "plain cheating" and should be dealt with the same way.

I read a piece by Guillem Balague where he suggested that in Spain and some SA countries the physical route of fouling an opponent is seen as a far worse crime than a little sleight of foot to get a set piece.
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For me, a vital part of the definition of cheating is deception. Cynically bringing a player down to prevent a break, in plain view of the ref, isn't an attempt to deceive the referee, and so isn't the same as diving, in which a player attempts to trick and deceive the referee.

Still, I accept that some fouls (e.g. a sneaky shirt pull) are an attempt to deceive the ref to an extent. Which leads me to say that I think the reason people take more of an issue with diving than fouling isn't based on logic - it's an emotional reaction to how pathetic it looks to see grown men, who are supposed to be playing a contact sport, throwing themselves to the ground and/or pretending that they're hurt when they're not. It's the kind of thing you'd expect a 3-year old to do. It's a ****ing embarassment to the sport and to men everywhere, and it genuinely makes me want to stamp on their head or break their leg (and I'm a pacifist who's never even thrown a punch in his life!)
 
galeforce said:
you'd need some kind of appeals process for retrospective bans surely, and I wouldn't envy the panel defining where the line between simulation and gravitation is
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I don't think this is a good enough reason not to have the retrospective banning at all. You could say that only dives where there was 100% no contact are punished, or have a panel of at least 5 members and say that the decision has to be unanimous.
 
milo said:
I'd favour retrospective action with a 3 game ban for diving. It would stamp it out in a month.
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This

It's not just Bale from Spurs that has dived in the past either, Townsend, Walker, Adebayor, Modric, Defoe and Zokora have all been gulity of it.
 
billyiddo said:
May be the most penalised but are far from the worst - only need to watch the likes of United/Arsenal a few times to see what their players get away with every game.

Retrospective 1 game bans would get my vote for a more suitable punishment
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I agree to an extent. There's no doubt the top teams get away with it more, look at how many times Young has got penalties over the years. Steven Gerrard flies under the radar when people talk about the worst divers, rarely gets shown on MOTD. But the days have gone when we can accuse Scum of cheating considering we've had and defended players like Bale. There's no doubt some of us would have defended Pires if he was a Spurs player.
 
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