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Upgrading the Team

harr1984 said:
Henderson gets a rough ride, in reality hes a decent player and certainly isnt any worse than Dier at CM. Dier's versatility can give him the edge overall but there really isnt anything to pick between the two....
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I think Dier is significantly better. With and without the ball. In his in game intelligence, and execution of passes etc.

Henderson gets a rough ride relative to his station. He is, IMO, pretty well average. "decent" is about as best you can describe him. He is really quite limited IMHO and really only good for certain roles.

At Sunderland he was their best player, by virtue of seeming actually competent/proficient. Relative to the club people were like "hey, hes ok".

He is not, however, anything like good enough for a club of Liverpools aspiration. It baffles me they were interested, let alone spent (for the time) good money on him, and since he has somehow become their captain. Its mental.
And, of course, its because of that he is in the England squad now.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think Dier is significantly better. With and without the ball. In his in game intelligence, and execution of passes etc.

Henderson gets a rough ride relative to his station. He is, IMO, pretty well average. "decent" is about as best you can describe him. He is really quite limited IMHO and really only good for certain roles.

At Sunderland he was their best player, by virtue of seeming actually competent/proficient. Relative to the club people were like "hey, hes ok".

He is not, however, anything like good enough for a club of Liverpools aspiration. It baffles me they were interested, let alone spent (for the time) good money on him, and since he has somehow become their captain. Its mental.
And, of course, its because of that he is in the England squad now.
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I dont think he's signifcantly better, the article below shows his stats are favourable but theres not much in it. The upside to Dier is he is younger and more verstatile:

https://talksport.com/football/jord...see-who-should-start-world-cup-russia-england
 
harr1984 said:
I dont think he's signifcantly better, the article below shows his stats are favourable but theres not much in it. The upside to Dier is he is younger and more verstatile:

https://talksport.com/football/jord...see-who-should-start-world-cup-russia-england
Click to expand...

I really think he is significantly better - that versatility alone is one of the things that makes him so.

To be able to switch between positions as seamlessly as Dier does shows he is a much better footballer.

Has a better grasp of the game, is more skilled, more intelligent. More ABLE.

Yes, when both play DM they do a very similar job, but as footballers I think there is a large difference in quality between them.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I really think he is significantly better - that versatility alone is one of the things that makes him so.

To be able to switch between positions as seamlessly as Dier does shows he is a much better footballer.

Has a better grasp of the game, is more skilled, more intelligent. More ABLE.

Yes, when both play DM they do a very similar job, but as footballers I think there is a large difference in quality between them.
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I dont agree he switches seamlessly - he makes a lot of brain fart type errors. Good job that stat was just 'Errors leading to goals' as opposed to error leading to chance created. But as for your overall opinion that there is a large difference in quality between them, I just dont see it - I think its more marginal in Diers favour but there you go....
 
harr1984 said:
I dont agree he switches seamlessly - he makes a lot of brain fart type errors. Good job that stat was just 'Errors leading to goals' as opposed to error leading to chance created. But as for your overall opinion that there is a large difference in quality between them, I just dont see it - I think its more marginal in Diers favour but there you go....
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Dier regularly plays 3 or 4 positions within a single game, and switches between them with such ease it often goes un noticed.

Yes, he makes mistakes. All players do. And those that play in defensive situations tend to be highlighted for them because they can be costly - Dier is no worse than anyone in this respect but it seems to be something people like to pick up on him.

You are of course welcome to a difference of opinion, though in this case I think yours is simply wrong. In both under appreciating Dier and (bizarrely!) over rating Henderson. As footballers its not even close, IMHO, and thats nothing to do with any pro/anti bias on the part of their respective clubs (which is something else doing the rounds here lately).
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Dier regularly plays 3 or 4 positions within a single game, and switches between them with such ease it often goes un noticed.

Yes, he makes mistakes. All players do. And those that play in defensive situations tend to be highlighted for them because they can be costly - Dier is no worse than anyone in this respect but it seems to be something people like to pick up on him.

You are of course welcome to a difference of opinion, though in this case I think yours is simply wrong. In both under appreciating Dier and (bizarrely!) over rating Henderson. As footballers its not even close, IMHO, and thats nothing to do with any pro/anti bias on the part of their respective clubs (which is something else doing the rounds here lately).
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As an overall package Id agree with you, but again it all stems around the versatility he offers - as simply playing CM I just dont see much difference between them. This thing that does the rounds on here alluding to Henderson not being able to pass is nonsense, I have seen him do plenty of quality long range passes much like Dier. I dont think Im overrating or underrating either, I just think they're of a similar level with Dier having the edge. If as you say Im simply wrong then so be it, I dont care enough to have a long winded debate on it....
 
After a few weeks, it's starting to feel like we have two must-have, main priorities (replacing Toby and Mousa), one secondary goal (replacing Llorente/Janssen), and a few nice-to-haves (replacing Sissoko, getting another ACM to spell Eriksen). Though I think we can upgrade both Trippier and Davies, it looks basically guaranteed that they'll sign new contracts, and it's looking more likely that Rose will stay. I'm hoping Rose can get back to his best, and Aurier will settle well after a full preseason.

I think this would be my ideal, realistic business, based on the players that are available and that we've been linked with. I'm assuming we can't sign Martial, but I'd rather have him than Malcom because I feel like he's a better CF prospect. But getting Malcom would allow us to slot Son into CF without losing any potency out wide. I'd also really like to see us invest in Onomah as the Sissoko replacement, but the Grealish rumors are just way too far down the road to ignore. In a perfect world, I'd love to see Onomah get all the Sissoko minutes and for us to use the 20 million we spent on Grealish to splash out on someone like Martial, but that seems unlikely.

OUT: Toby (65 mil) , Mousa (25 mil) , Janssen (10 mil), Llorente (6-8 mil), Sissoko (20 mil)
IN: NDombele (50 mil), De Ligt (50 mil), Grealish (20 mil), Malcom (30 mil)
LOAN: Onomah (lower-half Prem team)
NET SPEND: 25 mil

26-Man Squad: (I put Grealish in two places cuz idk really where he'd play for us)

GK: Lloris (Vorm) (Gazzaniga)
RB: Trippier (Aurier) (KWP)
CB: Sanchez (De Ligt)
CB: Vertonghen (Foyth) (CCV)
LB: Davies (Rose)

CM 1: Winks (NDombele) (Grealish)
CM 2: Dier (Wanyama)

FW/AM: Eriksen (Lamela) (Grealish)
FW/AM: Son (Lucas)
FW/AM: Dele (Malcom)

ST: Kane (Son)
 
PL minutes played:
  1. Lloris, Hugo 3240
  2. Eriksen, Christian 3226
  3. Vertonghen, Jan 3205
  4. Kane, Harry 3083
  5. Alli, Dele 2970
  6. Dier, Eric 2827
  7. Sánchez, Davinson 2534
  8. Davies, Ben 2325
  9. Son, Heungmin 2309
  10. Trippier, Kieran 1913
  11. Dembélé, Mousa 1883
  12. Aurier, Serge 1429
  13. Sissoko, Moussa 1394
  14. Alderweireld, Toby 1177
  15. Wanyama, Victor 839
  16. Lamela, Erik 833
  17. Rose, Danny 801
  18. Winks, Harry 771
  19. Llorente, Fernando 225
  20. Nkoudou, Georges-Kevin 225
  21. Lucas Moura 208
  22. Walker-Peters, Kyle 188
  23. Gazzaniga, Paulo 90
  24. Vorm, Michel 90
  25. Janssen, Vincent 1
So we basically used 17 (6 of whom can play in multiple positions) outfield players, with 5 of those seriously affected by injury, plus the first choice goalkeeper and backup.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
PL minutes played:
  1. Lloris, Hugo 3240
  2. Eriksen, Christian 3226
  3. Vertonghen, Jan 3205
  4. Kane, Harry 3083
  5. Alli, Dele 2970
  6. Dier, Eric 2827
  7. Sánchez, Davinson 2534
  8. Davies, Ben 2325
  9. Son, Heungmin 2309
  10. Trippier, Kieran 1913
  11. Dembélé, Mousa 1883
  12. Aurier, Serge 1429
  13. Sissoko, Moussa 1394
  14. Alderweireld, Toby 1177
  15. Wanyama, Victor 839
  16. Lamela, Erik 833
  17. Rose, Danny 801
  18. Winks, Harry 771
  19. Llorente, Fernando 225
  20. Nkoudou, Georges-Kevin 225
  21. Lucas Moura 208
  22. Walker-Peters, Kyle 188
  23. Gazzaniga, Paulo 90
  24. Vorm, Michel 90
  25. Janssen, Vincent 1
So we basically used 17 (6 of whom can play in multiple positions) outfield players, with 5 of those seriously affected by injury, plus the first choice goalkeeper and backup.
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Did Janssen play 1 minute last season....don't remember that...thought he was long gone?
 
World Cup is as good as done. Transfers are back on! What's the consensus as to what we need then? And what should be the priorities?

#1 a midfielder
#2 a young goal scorer who can lead the line (cover Kane) and play across the front 3 positions?

Are we able to add polls, or votes are off post Brexit? :p
 
SpurMeUp said:
World Cup is as good as done. Transfers are back on! What's the consensus as to what we need then? And what should be the priorities?

#1 a midfielder
#2 a young goal scorer who can lead the line (cover Kane) and play across the front 3 positions?

Are we able to add polls, or votes are off post Brexit? :p
Click to expand...

1) Replace Dembele (e.g. Kovacic)
2) Replace Alder (e.g. De Ligt)
3) Replace Llorente (e.g. Martial)
 
anyone worried about the fitness of the team for when the prem kicks off, Kane, Ali, Trippier looked dead on their feet at the of the WC, isn't Son meant to be on international duty til Sept
 
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