U23s, Academy and Loanees

[Bullet]

Came on late on and made a pretty bad mistake that cost Aberdeen the third goal in their 3-0 defeat.

That goal was in the 97th minute when already 2-0 down, the game was totally lost at that point

 

[Finney Is Back]

That goal was in the 97th minute when already 2-0 down, the game was totally lost at that point

But was still a bad mistake that saw them concede a goal.

People who haven’t really even seen much, if any, of our youth football clamour for the youngsters to play first team games when in reality the gap between youth and men’s football is extremely big.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But was still a bad mistake that saw them concede a goal.

People who haven’t really even seen much, if any, of our youth football clamour for the youngsters to play first team games when in reality the gap between youth and men’s football is extremely big.

But they only get the experience by playing
Look at how Bergvall has improved over half a season

 

[glasgowspur]

But was still a bad mistake that saw them concede a goal.

People who haven’t really even seen much, if any, of our youth football clamour for the youngsters to play first team games when in reality the gap between youth and men’s football is extremely big.

This is where I struggle with some people's logic.
Ange is useless, a PE teacher, only ever worked in Diddy leagues, can't cut it in the PL, toughest league in the world.
But if we throw in a bunch of kids who have only played at u18 level everything will be fine.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

This is where I struggle with some people's logic.
Ange is useless, a PE teacher, only ever worked in Diddy leagues, can't cut it in the PL, toughest league in the world.
But if we throw in a bunch of kids who have only played at u18 level everything will be fine.

Not fine but when the alternative is watching Son, Bissouma, Maddison etc toil around I think it's better.

 

[Muttley]

This is where I struggle with some people's logic.
Ange is useless, a PE teacher, only ever worked in Diddy leagues, can't cut it in the PL, toughest league in the world.
But if we throw in a bunch of kids who have only played at u18 level everything will be fine.

As I said last season with Jamie Donley, there is no harm in giving youngsters some cameos on their way up. Fergie was brilliant at it. It's not really about "throwing in" the youngsters. It's about easing them in gently, and the bench is a really important part of that process.

That is why managers get paid the big bucks.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is where I struggle with some people's logic.
Ange is useless, a PE teacher, only ever worked in Diddy leagues, can't cut it in the PL, toughest league in the world.
But if we throw in a bunch of kids who have only played at u18 level everything will be fine.

Anges biggest issue is the senior players are not delivering

 

[Muttley]

Anges biggest issue is the senior players are not delivering

I think it is deeper than that. I think it is practically impossible for players to deliver Ange's system every game. There is no point Ange getting frustrated that they could not execute it in any given game. He needs to figure out the why they can against a top Liverpool side but can't against a poor Tamworth team, and then can't again against a good Arsenal team.

This pattern has been like this for a long time now, whether it is with a fit squad or a broken squad. I'm less than convinced that his squad will find consistency when all the players return. That is knowing that it should be easier to find that consistency now that a bigger part of the squad has been exposed to his system through the injury crisis.

We really get to find out whether it is the players or the manager's system in the next phase.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think it is deeper than that. I think it is practically impossible for players to deliver Ange's system every game. There is no point Ange getting frustrated that they could not execute it in any given game. He needs to figure out the why they can against a top Liverpool side but can't against a poor Tamworth team, and then can't again against a good Arsenal team.

This pattern has been like this for a long time now, whether it is with a fit squad or a broken squad. I'm less than convinced that his squad will find consistency when all the players return. That is knowing that it should be easier to find that consistency now that a bigger part of the squad has been exposed to his system through the injury crisis.

We really get to find out whether it is the players or the manager's system in the next phase.

It wasn’t the senior players vs pool that delivered mate

 

[Muttley]

It wasn’t the senior players vs pool that delivered mate

I agree, but all of the players go through the same process of training and playing. Both old and young players have equally struggled in Ange's system. Just take Sarr as an example.

We will have to admit eventually that Ange's system and even management needs to be the focus. It's so easy to find narratives that removes the manager from the focus, and points it elsewhere.

What happens if we churn the senior players again? We just did that with Kane, Hugo, Hojbjerg, Dier etc. At some point Ange needs to earn the big bucks and get some consistency from this talented squad. I'll give him more time because of the injury pattern, but he does need to get the sum of the parts working.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I agree, but all of the players go through the same process of training and playing. Both old and young players have equally struggled in Ange's system. Just take Sarr as an example.

We will have to admit eventually that Ange's system and even management needs to be the focus. It's so easy to find narratives that removes the manager from the focus, and points it elsewhere.

What happens if we churn the senior players again? We just did that with Kane, Hugo, Hojbjerg, Dier etc. At some point Ange needs to earn the big bucks and get some consistency from this talented squad. I'll give him more time because of the injury pattern, but he does need to get the sum of the parts working.

I think the senior players will be gone
It’s what Poch did. Son has a stay of execution
Forster goes this summer
I would keep Davies another year
That’s it
Then it’s Maddison at 28
But you also mention squad… we haven’t had an actual squad for some time now
And less so after we binned off so many players in the summer
That’s where Ange needs the help and backing
The club decides to offload so many players theh then have to replace them

 

[Muttley]

I think the senior players will be gone
It’s what Poch did. Son has a stay of execution
Forster goes this summer
I would keep Davies another year
That’s it
Then it’s Maddison at 28
But you also mention squad… we haven’t had an actual squad for some time now
And less so after we binned off so many players in the summer
That’s where Ange needs the help and backing
The club decides to offload so many players theh then have to replace them

Ange has had more backing than any Spurs manager in my lifetime. It's the most money we've spent ever including the couple of years leading up to him arriving. It's the most attractive looking academy for decades as well. He has definitely had a squad, but he's also had 2 big periods of injuries across his 2 seasons in charge.

However, this concerning pattern that an Ange team turns up but can't execute to his chosen tactics is the elephant in the room. Eventually it stops being about fit and available players as the entire squad should know the system. The concern is that the system isn't a replicable model because it is too disrupted by the other manager's systems. I think that is what we may be seeing. It is probably too predictable, and too easy to play against.

Even if the peak may not be high enough under Ange, we're nowhere near the plateau yet.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ange has had more backing than any Spurs manager in my lifetime. It's the most money we've spent ever including the couple of years leading up to him arriving. It's the most attractive looking academy for decades as well. He has definitely had a squad, but he's also had 2 big periods of injuries across his 2 seasons in charge.

However, this concerning pattern that an Ange team turns up but can't execute to his chosen tactics is the elephant in the room. Eventually it stops being about fit and available players as the entire squad should know the system. The concern is that the system isn't a replicable model because it is too disrupted by the other manager's systems. I think that is what we may be seeing. It is probably too predictable, and too easy to play against.

Even if the peak may not be high enough under Ange, we're nowhere near the plateau yet.

I believe we have also let the most amount of players leave over the same period compared to any other manager
The predictability is an issue but I do wonder if some of that comes down to having to play the same player every week

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I believe loans are there so that players like Dorrington can make their mistakes and learn from them, intelligent people learn from mistakes.

 

[Finney Is Back]

But they only get the experience by playing
Look at how Bergvall has improved over half a season

Bergvall had played lots of men's football already.

I'm all for our youngsters getting experience, I'm delighted that Dorrington is now getting experience in the SPL and costing Aberdeen goals instead of THFC as he learns about the massive differences between youth football and real men's football.

 

[Finney Is Back]

This is where I struggle with some people's logic.
Ange is useless, a PE teacher, only ever worked in Diddy leagues, can't cut it in the PL, toughest league in the world.
But if we throw in a bunch of kids who have only played at u18 level everything will be fine.

It comes from people who have no idea about the huge difference between youth and men's football.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Bergvall had played lots of men's football already.

I'm all for our youngsters getting experience, I'm delighted that Dorrington is now getting experience in the SPL and costing Aberdeen goals instead of THFC as he learns about the massive differences between youth football and real men's football.

It’s a very low standard of football though
We should have all the players Ange does trust on loans asap

 

[Finney Is Back]

It’s a very low standard of football though
We should have all the players Ange does trust on loans asap

It is still men's football and massively different to youth football.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It is still men's football and massively different to youth football.

The physical difference is there but the pace isn’t at all levels

 

[Finney Is Back]

The physical difference is there but the pace isn’t at all levels

Sorry mate but it is very different. Physicality and experience makes a massive difference on the football pitch. There are a tiny number of young players who can just go straight in and cope.