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SpurMeUp said:
maybe it was a different game but I thought Wolves just gave him the freedom of the final third. Could have been Brighton? Marked Son and Kane out the game and Royal had so much space which he did nothing with.
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Do you think this would be any different with Traore? Delivery is literally the weakest part of his game.

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Bishop said:
Do you think this would be any different with Traore? Delivery is literally the weakest part of his game.

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with St Maximam or Traore yes. Totally different players to Royal. Despite the stereotype Traore can finish and cross if he slows down. But he needs confidence and coaching. I don’t think you can compare Royal to these players. The lazy no end product thing is oversimplification. They are both players who can beat a man and open things up. Royal isn’t. Obvious no?
 
SpurMeUp said:
with St Maximam or Traore yes. Totally different players to Royal. Despite the stereotype Traore can finish and cross if he slows down. But he needs confidence and coaching. I don’t think you can compare Royal to these players. The lazy no end product thing is oversimplification. They are both players who can beat a man and open things up. Royal isn’t. Obvious no?
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With me with regards Traore it's not lazy. I've honestly watched him play hundreds of games. I used to watch him with the Barca youth teams and Barca B moving on to his time at Middlesbrough and Wolves. I don't know if you've watched as much of him as I have over the years but when I say he has poor end product it's not an over simplification. It's just my opinion honed on seeing him play literally hundreds of times. His end product is just poor. He's a fantastic dribbler but that's it.

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Bishop said:
With me with regards Traore it's not lazy. I've honestly watched him play hundreds of games. I used to watch him with the Barca youth teams and Barca B moving on to his time at Middlesbrough and Wolves. I don't know if you've watched as much of him as I have over the years but when I say he has poor end product it's not an over simplification. It's just my opinion honed on seeing him play literally hundreds of times. His end product is just poor. He's a fantastic dribbler but that's it.

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I think the Traore thing has been done to death. He can finish and can cross, you clearly haven’t watched all that much of him at Wolves as he’s done both. The issue is his consistency and application. So there is intrigue there: what if Conte can install consistency, application and determination into his game/character?
 
Bishop said:
With me with regards Traore it's not lazy. I've honestly watched him play hundreds of games. I used to watch him with the Barca youth teams and Barca B moving on to his time at Middlesbrough and Wolves. I don't know if you've watched as much of him as I have over the years but when I say he has poor end product it's not an over simplification. It's just my opinion honed on seeing him play literally hundreds of times. His end product is just poor. He's a fantastic dribbler but that's it.

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Agree with this
At youth level when I saw him play you could see the raw talent but none of the Barca finesse
He hasn’t changed that much but got stronger and quicker
 
SpurMeUp said:
I think the Traore thing has been done to death. He can finish and can cross, you clearly haven’t watched all that much of him at Wolves as he’s done both. The issue is his consistency and application. So there is intrigue there: what if Conte can install consistency, application and determination into his game/character?
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No the issue is his end product is poor. It’s statically poor and factually poor. By Jan last season he had a total xg of 0.68…. Total. From an attacker. He scores less than 60% on all key attacking metrics over his career.
He is a faster version of Moura for want of a better description
 
Bedfordspurs said:
No the issue is his end product is poor. It’s statically poor and factually poor. By Jan last season he had a total xg of 0.68…. Total. From an attacker. He scores less than 60% on all key attacking metrics over his career.
He is a faster version of Moura for want of a better description
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Scored 6 and laid on 12 assists in the season he played consistently. So he can do it. The issue is he need structure, and he needs to apply himself consistently. Similar to St Maximan he can beat a defender almost at will. Playing in a clear structure - once you beat the man you know where you team mates will be and it’s simpler to deliver the cross or pass.

The key with Traore is he has to slow down to better control his passes and shots. And only use his full pace when he needs to get away from a defender.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Scored 6 and laid on 12 assists in the season he played consistently. So he can do it. The issue is he need structure, and he needs to apply himself consistently. Similar to St Maximan he can beat a defender almost at will. Playing in a clear structure - once you beat the man you know where you team mates will be and it’s simpler to deliver the cross or pass.

The key with Traore is he has to slow down to better control his passes and shots. And only use his full pace when he needs to get away from a defender.
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Your talking an outlier
I can find you a season where Moura did that. He still shouldn’t be anywhere near the team
I agree he can beat a defender… the issue is he can’t do the footballing basics with the ball
When Kulu joined you could see he owned the football when he got it
Same with Romero, same with a Bentacur. They recognise the ball does the hard work
Players like Traore see the football as the thing they have to run with but then realise they can actually do anything with it after the running.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Your talking an outlier
I can find you a season where Moura did that. He still shouldn’t be anywhere near the team
I agree he can beat a defender… the issue is he can’t do the footballing basics with the ball
When Kulu joined you could see he owned the football when he got it
Same with Romero, same with a Bentacur. They recognise the ball does the hard work
Players like Traore see the football as the thing they have to run with but then realise they can actually do anything with it after the running.
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I agree. He doesn’t have the same craft as the players mentioned. At the moment Traore Is a head down speed merchant. To be successful he needs to have structure, consistency and application. With those things in place he could use his dribbling ability to much greater effect. That one season shows the talent is there. On the break he can be devastating. I remember us just fouling him every time he got the ball because we had no answer to him.

We are not talking about a 50-60m player here. Not even a 30m player. He’s a 15-20m player and his stock is low. Way back I wanted him as a better sub option than Clinton Njie and wanted to see Poch turn him into a player. Conte might be able to as well but the biggest concern is his application and determination. If Traore is willing to work and show Conte levels of desire - then he could apply his freak dribbling skills to great effect within a team structure.

There were some rumours we spoke to him about playing RWB in Jan and he wasn’t committed or into the idea, and then he went to Barça. And that’s the issue: if you’re committed you say yes I’ll walk through walls and achieve - you show hunger and desire. You don’t see that fire in Traore. but if Conte could instil the right ethic, he’s not a bad sub/rotation for the outlay.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I agree. He doesn’t have the same craft as the players mentioned. At the moment Traore Is a head down speed merchant. To be successful he needs to have structure, consistency and application. With those things in place he could use his dribbling ability to much greater effect. That one season shows the talent is there. On the break he can be devastating. I remember us just fouling him every time he got the ball because we had no answer to him.

We are not talking about a 50-60m player here. Not even a 30m player. He’s a 15-20m player and his stock is low. Way back I wanted him as a better sub option than Clinton Njie and wanted to see Poch turn him into a player. Conte might be able to as well but the biggest concern is his application and determination. If Traore is willing to work and show Conte levels of desire - then he could apply his freak dribbling skills to great effect within a team structure.

There were some rumours we spoke to him about playing RWB in Jan and he wasn’t committed or into the idea, and then he went to Barça. And that’s the issue: if you’re committed you say yes I’ll walk through walls and achieve, you show that hunger and desire. You don’t see that in Traore, but if Conte could instil the right ethic, he’s not a bad sub/rotation for the outlay.
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He is certainly a curve ball option and one that could damage teams
But he would have to learn a lot, quickly
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Your talking an outlier
I can find you a season where Moura did that.
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You want a toe poke? I can get you a toe poke, believe me.

I can get you a toe-poke by three o'clock this afternoon. With nail polish.

Sorry, but the discussion was headed into this sort of ridiculously sublime territory.
 
The replacements Madrid have made for Modric and Kroos have been very good, Camavinga and tschabcdecghijklymnopqrstuvwxyz(Sp) are going to be top top players within the next 5 years.

All they need now is someone to replace Benzema.
 
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