I'm objective, I thought he was excellent and you're peddling the same bollox again! It's your prerogative of course but the beauty of objectivity is being able to call it how you see it. To knit pick like you are doing about one incident shows where you are! There is a great deal that needs doing to right the poor decisions made by our chairman in 2012. At least give the manager a few windows to bring in some players that may fit his style and philosophy!
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*** Tottenham Hotspur vs. Saudi Sportswashing Machine Utd *** OMT
- Thread starter LutonSpurs
- Start date
I'm objective, I thought he was excellent and you're peddling the same bollox again! It's your prerogative of course but the beauty of objectivity is being able to call it how you see it. To knit pick like you are doing about one incident shows where you are! There is a great deal that needs doing to right the poor decisions made by our chairman in 2012. At least give the manager a few windows to bring in some players that may fit his style and philosophy!
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
A bit cheap.
But no worries, certainly not for me, I know who I think good players are and aren't... time will tell and we shall see shan't we?
chicken_badge
Gudni Bergsson
Well done lads, wanted you to win today. This club needs to be relegated.
I didn't go today. Enough is enough.
My mate is a Saudi Sportswashing Machine fan and he also wanted a Spurs win. Not sure going down is the answer though, although you did it before some clubs can get trapped down there, just look at dirty Leeds. Hard division.
But..... you have my sympathy. Club isn't going forwards and Ashley is clearly bad news. Fans don't care about profits because it's all of football finance is so perverse.... You just want your club back. So I can see the logic in hoping the club haemorrhage enough cash for Ashley to get a bloody nose and jump ship.
I do wish you the best, because for all our desire to be considered amongst Arsenal, Man United and Liverpool there is a certain similarity between Spurs, Emirates Marketing Project, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton, Villa. We look at Emirates Marketing Project with envy and think "that could be us".... we think the same thing looking at you but this time with relief. Good luck for the rest of the season!
Baleforce
Les Bennett
I've never understood that "we want our club back" nonsense, the only fans who can say that without sounding ridiculous are liverpool, because having "their club" back would mean winning everything every year
I've heard it from charlton fans this season moaning about the board which solved their financial problems and got them back into the championship, charlton fans don't want "their club" back as "their club" are a bottom of the second tier on the verge of bankruptcy club, that would be madness, they are far better off with what they have now
we've done it here, I've heard "we want our Tottenham back" ringing around the lane many many times, but I don't want our Tottenham back, I want a new Tottenham, a tottenham that wins european cups and premier league titles regularly
ambition is a good thing
I've heard it from charlton fans this season moaning about the board which solved their financial problems and got them back into the championship, charlton fans don't want "their club" back as "their club" are a bottom of the second tier on the verge of bankruptcy club, that would be madness, they are far better off with what they have now
we've done it here, I've heard "we want our Tottenham back" ringing around the lane many many times, but I don't want our Tottenham back, I want a new Tottenham, a tottenham that wins european cups and premier league titles regularly
ambition is a good thing
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Nothing has really changed at Saudi Sportswashing Machine though other than now under record TV Revenues their making money
I'm 38 and in my lifetime they have had a really good team for about two season and a decent one for about 3 more. They have reached one final IIRC and was top of the league for a period of time one season when they spent a fortune compared to most clubs.
Their fans are loyal but so are plenty of other clubs fans in one club cities.
I can think of plenty of clubs who have done more in my lifetime and don't believe they have the divine rights if a lot of Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans
Baleforce
Les Bennett
I'm around the same age, yes they have had a couple of good sides over the years, but to my mind they are a yo yo club between the top tiers
obviously they have shown limited if any ambition in their recruitment over the last few years but Ashley has them higher than they probably should be and a safe bet for continued PL involvement, a change of ownership puts this at risk
obviously they have shown limited if any ambition in their recruitment over the last few years but Ashley has them higher than they probably should be and a safe bet for continued PL involvement, a change of ownership puts this at risk
GrimsbyYid
Gus Poyet
...because Mason had nothing to do with the last goal...
We'd already won it by then, we did the damage the previous 80 minutes. He did well for it though. But we are far far superior without him in the team. Even with a pretty average Paulinho, still offers more. Just imagine someone actually fantastic in that position!
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Anything else to add? I mean, a further comment, even a criticism of my initial comment would be worthwhile/
I am one of probably only six people on this forum who believes there is a player in Paulinho if only we could find it in time before he leaves. He had a mare at Burnley but was really decent today, absolutely.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Could not disagree more on Bentaleb.
But if it's true that Bentaleb as our deepest midfielder was in fact "a complete defensive liability" and "had a mare" apart from one individual situation a lot of positives will have to be brought up about our other deep midfielder and our back 4 as they must have done splendid job as Saudi Sportswashing Machine created very little despite Bentaleb's allegedly massive problems.
Just to be clear how many needless free kicks and instances of backing away from challenges do you think there were? I mean, you're describing him as "shocking" and "a complete defensive liability" so there must have been a lot, right?
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
Off the top of my head, he ducked out of ( as in completely missed three challenges he should have made) one of which led to their goal, he gave the ball away in dangerous positions on at least one occasion ( as is his propensity), and most importantly he gave away quite a few free kicks in dangerous positions due to reckless and needless tackles, inviting unnecessary pressure on us and he missed a relatively simple header which he should at least have got on target. Yes, he played a good ball to Lamela for his chance and a delightful scooped pass to Kane, but overall to describe his performance as "excellent" is nonsensical imo.
It must also be remembered that we were playing a dreadful Saudi Sportswashing Machine team who had lost their last five games. They put no pressure on him or anyone else and against better teams that performance would undoubtedly have cost us dearly - as it has done in the recent past.
Pirate55
The Last Man Standing 17/18
Please explain what you mean by " peddling the same bollox again". I took issue with someone describing Bentaleb's performance yesterday as excellent. I see you too think that. Well, I would then take issue with your definition of "excellent". See above for where I point out that his performance was not judged on a single incident.
BTW, I have not mentioned Poch. I do think he is due some criticism but I am willing to give him to at least the middle of next season before making a judgment on him.
He missed three tackles in the match. I wasn't sure if that was a lot so I looked it up against a defensively solid team - Chelsea. This weekend, Matic missed three tackles. That Lucas chap is meant to be pretty good at tackling isn't he? After all, that's his raison d'etre. Against Saudi Sportswashing Machine (at home) he missed 9 tackles. Bentaleb's average in the PL this season is under two missed tackles per match - that seems pretty much on a par with some of the league's better players from what I've seen.
EDIT:
I think that maybe you need to realign your expectations for tacklers. It's very common (even amongst the best) for players to miss more tackles than they make - http://goo.gl/FWQWHR
One thing that did stand out in looking this up is just what a good match Schneiderlin had at the weekend:
2 shots (both on target), 88% pass completion, 6 tackles (100% completion)...
He gave the ball away 8 times in the match, none of which were received by our opponents in our half. The closest he came to that was giving away a throw just inside the halfway line. Schneiderlin gave the ball away 7 times, Joe Allen 10, Lampard 8, the list goes on.
He gave away 3 fouls in the entire match. Two were on the halfway line and one was in a dangerous position. I won't bother looking that up as I'm very certain that's on a par with some of the better players in the league.
Do you want me to list some of the misses this weekend? Some very, very good footballers (strikers at that) missed chances.
What makes you think he'd have played the same way against a better team? Surely a good team/player will adapt?
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GrimsbyYid
Gus Poyet
Yeah I don't think he's awful, and I genuinely believe he offers more than Mason, but he still isn't good enough. Dembele and Stambouli impress me more. But ultimately, I think it's our weakest area by far and we should go all out for as close to world class as possible in there!
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I'm really struggling to make sense of what you're saying. You're calling him getting dribbled past in the buildup to their goal him "ducking out of challenges". At the same time you're calling his fouls "reckless and needless tackles". I would say it would take a pretty reckless tackle, likely to give away a free kick for him to stop Janmaat in the buildup to the goal. And whilst the free kick towards the end (his only free kick near the box according to Scara at least?) was frustrating it wasn't a result of a reckless tackle. He was pretty much right side, he tried to tackle an opponent heading into a dangerous area, but unfortunately didn't quite get the ball. It seems to me that your evaluations of these situations are almost entirely based on the outcome. Had he gone for the tackle against Janmaat and it ended up a free kick that was dangerous it feels to me like that would have been something you would have deemed reckless and needless.
Some of the reasons I thought he was excellent are highlighted in this video:
A lot quick effective passes, movement off the ball, and those very important quick passes through levels of pressure to find our attacking players in good positions. In addition to those a couple of great through balls, some great moments of individual skill. Highest number of passes of any player on the pitch with a 88.9% passing accuracy.
What isn't really shown in that video would be the things he did well defensively. It was probably one of the most comfortable one goal leads we've had all season after we got the 2-1 goal and Bentaleb was doing his part defensively in making sure we didn't get counter attacked on. 4 successful tackles and 4 interceptions - highest combined number for any of our players on the day. (All stats from whoscored.com).
We are Tottenham
Eidur Gudjohnsen
for a minute or three I thought you were talking about us here..''''''''LOL
yeah its been a long time now!
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
Very happy with this result; all the more so that it puts us in the top 6!
From what I did see though we may have to step it up further big time to win at St Mary's next Saturday; if we defend like we did for their goal then I think we could get strung up as Soton have a very good defence (even if their attack is nowhere near as effective as they were in the autumn). Saudi Sportswashing Machine are really poor, but a win is a win.
Good to see Kane on the scoresheet again as well.
COYS
From what I did see though we may have to step it up further big time to win at St Mary's next Saturday; if we defend like we did for their goal then I think we could get strung up as Soton have a very good defence (even if their attack is nowhere near as effective as they were in the autumn). Saudi Sportswashing Machine are really poor, but a win is a win.
Good to see Kane on the scoresheet again as well.
COYS
Finney Is Back
Andy Thompson
While I agree with just about all of your points here (and additionally I thought Bentaleb was very good yesterday and probably our second best player after Paulinho) I'm sure I remember one occasion in the second half of the match where Bentaleb was caught in possession reasonably deep in our own half and it was only then a bit of poor play by Saudi Sportswashing Machine that led it not to develop into something more damaging?
I've not rewatched it - all my info is from Squawka which is usually pretty reliable. As far as I can tell they all buy their data from the same place.
Squawka only list passes and take-ons where possession was lost. I suppose there could be an instance where Bentaleb was stood still and had the ball taken off him without trying to pass or dribble - is that what you remember? In which case, that's something that I'd imagine would be the result of a poor pass rather than blaming the recipient.
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
Paulinho any time over Mason. Mason is limited. Pauliho has a better passing range, and is more of a goal threat. Think he proved that yesterday. Started with a magnificent pass in the 2nd or 3rd minute, and had an all round good game. Won the ball back and fed it to Chadli for the 1st goal. MoM? Well I thought Bentaleb was good and MoM for me, but he did waste a few chances. Paulinho OK choice for the award. Hope he continues those sort of performances!
parklane1
Tony Galvin
I would agree with, I think he showed enough yesterday to be given a run of games. he was not my MOM ( that was Jan) but he was not far behind.