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***TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs Chelsea OMT***

DeanoAustin said:
You’re living in a world Steff where, if the result goes against us, the coach should have done x, y or z and we’d have gotten a result. Doesn’t matter that x, y or z will never be tested. Doesn’t matter that 11 v 9 for 40 minutes is always likely to result in a win for 11.

The loss is on Romero and Udogie. Maybe you could look at Ange for the poor discipline across the team. But putting the loss down to tactics is just nonsense in my book. Whatever he did at 11 v 9 was always likely to end in defeat. It was far more entertaining to go down swinging.
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I totally get all of that and I’m 100% behind Ange - but I do just think there has to be a balance between the core philosophy and being able to execute a plan b.

At some stage some nous, some pragmatism surely has to come into play? Especially in an exceptional circumstance where we’re down to 9.

You can still play your football, keep it, be brave on the ball - but you don’t necessarily have to try to do that defending the halfway line.

Making an adjustment to the circumstances isn’t equal to abandoning the way we want to play.

We’ve all seen managers come undone because they stick unfailingly to their philosophy - Roberto Martinez at both Wigan and Everton comes to mind. He was naive and stubborn and it caught him out.

Sure, no guarantee at all of a different outcome had we dropped deeper. But playing that high after losing your quickest CB seems questionable.

I wonder if we could have kept Johnson on and used his and Son’s pace on the break while sitting a bit deeper.
 
Hotshot-Tottenham said:
I totally get all of that and I’m 100% behind Ange - but I do just think there has to be a balance between the core philosophy and being able to execute a plan b.

At some stage some nous, some pragmatism surely has to come into play? Especially in an exceptional circumstance where we’re down to 9.

You can still play your football, keep it, be brave on the ball - but you don’t necessarily have to try to do that defending the halfway line.

Making an adjustment to the circumstances isn’t equal to abandoning the way we want to play.

We’ve all seen managers come undone because they stick unfailingly to their philosophy - Roberto Martinez at both Wigan and Everton comes to mind. He was naive and stubborn and it caught him out.

Sure, no guarantee at all of a different outcome had we dropped deeper. But playing that high after losing your quickest CB seems questionable.

I wonder if we could have kept Johnson on and used his and Son’s pace on the break while sitting a bit deeper.
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We had one centre back , one full back and an injured attacking full back on the pitch

keeping them further away from our goal was a viable plan
 
Bedfordspurs said:
We walked out content and almot happy
the train journey home was fans already talking positively about what we will do on Saturday
no fears from those That have experienced Ange ball live
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What was the positives discussed for Saturday. I'm dreading the upcoming matches with only Porro left from the back 4. Do you think it will be Davies, Royal, Dier and Porro? I just can't see a way we can a) play out from the back as well as normal and b) have any pace to recover with VDV out.

I hope we can find a way but I'm not optimistic now for the next few weeks
 
dingdongo said:
What was the positives discussed for Saturday. I'm dreading the upcoming matches with only Porro left from the back 4. Do you think it will be Davies, Royal, Dier and Porro? I just can't see a way we can a) play out from the back as well as normal and b) have any pace to recover with VDV out.

I hope we can find a way but I'm not optimistic now for the next few weeks
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The positives are we will play attacking football, regardless of who plays
every player that came on yesterday played the same way
thats coaching
thats culture
thats bravery
and they ALL get it
we will miss VDV. He has been the best CB in the league and possibly Europe. But it’s a chance now for another player
Wolves will be missing their best player dont forget
 
dingdongo said:
What was the positives discussed for Saturday. I'm dreading the upcoming matches with only Porro left from the back 4. Do you think it will be Davies, Royal, Dier and Porro? I just can't see a way we can a) play out from the back as well as normal and b) have any pace to recover with VDV out.

I hope we can find a way but I'm not optimistic now for the next few weeks
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Depending on the injury to Davies, we could go Porro, Phillips, Dier, Royal
 
Spoonman said:
Got in late from the game last night and was too frazzled to post anything, my mind has been racing since and I have barely slept so may aswell get some thoughts on the game down.

Firstly, Romero. Idiot. I don't know what wound him up as he'd seemed a changed man this season. Ange needs to give him a private gonad*ing.

Destiny, I'll cut some slack. 1st booking was over zealous at a time in the game when we were all over them and the crowd was up. Caught up in the moment maybe? The 2nd booking you could see coming when the ball broke and came about as they had us 3 on 2 after Royal dived in and missed Sterling in their half.

I totally get those criticising the high line with 9 men. In hindsight it was probably suicidal, though with the personnel we had out there I think retreating to the edge of our box for 40 mins would have seen the same end result and would have denied us the almost comical sight of Chelsea repeatedly fudging up the seemingly simple (yes, I know they got through eventually).

The 2 late goals really added some undeserved gloss to the scoreline for Chelsea. They really weren't that good and we were taking them apart before the craziness ensued. Whilst you can't argue with our 2 reds I think there was a spell after the first Destiny booking where the ref let them get away with a string of fouls in quick sucession which frustrated the crowd and our players and enabled them to build some momentum for the first time which eventually led to the penalty incident. I thought Oliver had no control over the game at all and no consistency over what was or wasn't a foul.

Despite everything that was going wrong, the atmosphere and support was brilliant. I don't know if others who were there felt the same but after Romero's red and the injuries to Madders and VDV it just felt like 'oh well, that's it, were gonna lose this now' and everyone relaxed. Gone was the tension and stress of a big game where you are desperate for a win. It sounds bizarre but everyone was sort of enjoying it in a fudged up way. We were loving the effort and commitment from the 9 and every offside or misplaced Chelsea through ball was cheered like a goal and then there was Vicario.....

Can we call him the leagues best keeper yet?
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Similar, getting back from game, to add to what you and a few others said

- fudge it, we dare to do ..
- Vicario is the best keeper in the league, crazy good
- Loss is on two players being stupid
- VDV's injury is on VAR, sprinter standing around for 5-10 minutes waiting for decisions then having to go right after is an issue
- Linesman was awful, the amount of offsides just "missed" is utter incompetence
- Ref issue remains the same, super inconsistent, he lost control of the game (part of Chelsea's plan) and unfortunately a couple of our players got sucked into it.
- Sub players gave their all, everyone left on the field ran themselves into the ground
- Fans, well done, this is the way, this is what we have asked for for years, a brave team that will attack to the end and go down fighting regardless, we have it, back them and the manager all the way.

Anyone who watched that game knows only one team is a real threat to the top 4, and it isn't Chelsea.
 
Just watching it back over lunch
The Romero red was a red.. but the first infringement was the dive from Sterling. He literally thought VDV was gonna hit him and hit the deck. Blatant cheating with no effects
 
Romero cost us the game. The Chelsea players were deliberately snapping at heels and Romero let it get to his head.

Then Dier gets caught high up the pitch ahead and on VDV"s side, forcing Vdv to cover for him and tearing his hamstring.

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I guess this game will convince those who believe that ww have sufficient depth because its only one game a week.

Ange full marks for going down in style. Let's hope the new dof and scouting guys do as well as gabanini.
 
Watched back the highlights. I sort of dismissed those who criticised Ange’s tactics – I think you have to say the criticism is fair. How we defended with 9 was crazy in many ways.



But here’s the thing. We’ve been crying out for a manager who won’t sit back on a lead. Mourinho used to do it. I remember the Wolves and Palace games where we got ahead, defended for our lives for most of the game and then conceded equalisers. Conte would sit back before we even had a lead and It usually led to us going behind. Remember Marseille last year – one of the ugliest halves of football I’ve ever watched our club play. Ange says if we go 1 up, he’ll just try to go 2 up.



He can be criticised for last night legitimately. I still think we’d likely have lost no matter what approach we took. But we now have a manager with a philosophy and it’s the type of philosophy that 99% of our fan base have been crying out for for years. Some days, that’ll go wrong. If he compromises on that, where do you draw the line? When we’re 1 up in an important game? When we’re drawing away from home against a strong opponent. He’d get pelters if he did that and it cost us points. For better or worse, he has a way of playing and he’ll stick to it. I’m not sure it’s worth compromising on on the very off chance you might get a point against Chelsea.
 
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