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Tom Carroll

Bedfordspurs said:
I thought Carroll should know have gone off around 60 mins for bentelab. Seemed the logical sub to me.

Alli dropped into misfield and was poor IMO
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I mostly agree with you. I thought the game completely passed Carroll by. The only times I noticed him was when he seemed to be in the way of a team mate. So minimal was his impact that I thought he could easily have come off at half time. We got away with carrying Carroll in the first half as Saudi Sportswashing Machine were pretty timid, when they upped the pace and pressed us higher in the second half we could no longer carry him.

I agree that replacing Carroll with Bentaleb would've been the right move. By bringing on Son and dropping Alli deeper meant that we no longer had Alli's runs into the box and we were easier to defend against.

I also thought that Dier had a terrible game yesterday. For the first time this season I thought that he looked like a central defender out of position. Able to win the ball, but was ponderous when in possession and also passed it poorly.

Finally I thought the decision to replace Lamela with Chadli was also a strange one. I thought that Lamela was probably our best player on the day, in taking him off for Chadli we lost work rate as well as creativity and goal threat.

Also at 1-1 in the final minutes of the game had we pushed Alderwiereld up leaving Vertonghen with Saudi Sportswashing Machine's two forwards?

A bad day at the office for us. I get the idea that at 1-0 up we thought we only had to go through the motions to get the win. I would imagine that Pochettino will slaughter them in training today. What were his comments after the game by the way?
 
Finney Is Back said:
I mostly agree with you. I thought the game completely passed Carroll by. The only times I noticed him was when he seemed to be in a team mate's. So minimal was his impact that I thought he could easily have come off at half time. We got away with carrying Carroll in the first half as Saudi Sportswashing Machine were pretty timid, when they upped the pace and pressed us higher in the second half we could no longer carry him.

I agree that replacing Carroll with Bentaleb would've been the right move. By bringing on Son and dropping Alli deeper meant that we no longer had Alli's runs into the box and we were easier to defend against.

I also thought that Dier had a terrible game yesterday. For the first time this season I thought that he looked like a central defender out of position. Able to win the ball, but was ponderous when in possession and also passed it poorly.

Finally I thought the decision to replace Lamela with Chadli was also a strange one. I thought that Lamela was probably our best player on the day, in taking him off for Chadli we lost work rate as well as creativity and goal threat.

A bad day at the office for us. I get the idea that at 1-0 up we thought we only had to go through the motions to get the win. I would imagine that Pochettino will slaughter them in training today. What were his comments after the game by the way?
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Agree with all of that, Dier especially poor yesterday. Turned over possession at least 4 times in 2nd half! Missed Dembele massively.
 
Talking of strange decisions, seconds to go at the end of the first half and we win a free kick. Nstead of pumping it into the box for one last chance we play 2 yard passes and wait for the ref to blow! That speaks volumes about our attitude yesterday IMV
 
Finney Is Back said:
Also at 1-1 in the final minutes of the game had we pushed Alderwiereld up leaving Vertonghen with Saudi Sportswashing Machine's two forwards?
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No. At 2-1 with 30 seconds left, from the kickoff Toby went charging forwards and hung around near the top/right wing, with Walker at the back, just for a few moments
 
Finney Is Back said:
I mostly agree with you. I thought the game completely passed Carroll by. The only times I noticed him was when he seemed to be in the way of a team mate. So minimal was his impact that I thought he could easily have come off at half time. We got away with carrying Carroll in the first half as Saudi Sportswashing Machine were pretty timid, when they upped the pace and pressed us higher in the second half we could no longer carry him.

I agree that replacing Carroll with Bentaleb would've been the right move. By bringing on Son and dropping Alli deeper meant that we no longer had Alli's runs into the box and we were easier to defend against.

I also thought that Dier had a terrible game yesterday. For the first time this season I thought that he looked like a central defender out of position. Able to win the ball, but was ponderous when in possession and also passed it poorly.

Finally I thought the decision to replace Lamela with Chadli was also a strange one. I thought that Lamela was probably our best player on the day, in taking him off for Chadli we lost work rate as well as creativity and goal threat.

Also at 1-1 in the final minutes of the game had we pushed Alderwiereld up leaving Vertonghen with Saudi Sportswashing Machine's two forwards?

A bad day at the office for us. I get the idea that at 1-0 up we thought we only had to go through the motions to get the win. I would imagine that Pochettino will slaughter them in training today. What were his comments after the game by the way?
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Agree with all of that. I can Carroll can be and has been effective, but not yesterday.
 
scaramanga said:
Agree with all of that. I can Carroll can be and has been effective, but not yesterday.
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He deserved to keep his place after his excellent performance against Monaco. I don't blame Pochettino for putting him in. It is right to reward a good performance with another start. However I think after that performance Carroll will find himself back on the bench (at best) He didn't really contribute in either an attacking or defensive sense yesterday.
 
Finney Is Back said:
He deserved to keep his place after his excellent performance against Monaco. I don't blame Pochettino for putting him in. It is right to reward a good performance with another start. However I think after that performance Carroll will find himself back on the bench (at best) He didn't really contribute in either an attacking or defensive sense yesterday.
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Agreed. I also think that he and Dier were victims of less pressing than normal from Eriksen and Alli.

I don't know if that was under instruction from Poch because of what Saudi Sportswashing Machine did to Liverpool by playing over the press or if it was tiredness or what, but the press was far weaker than it has been in a while. That let Saudi Sportswashing Machine play through us rather than over us, and that will be tough for a new CM pairing.
 
scaramanga said:
Agreed. I also think that he and Dier were victims of less pressing than normal from Eriksen and Alli.

I don't know if that was under instruction from Poch because of what Saudi Sportswashing Machine did to Liverpool by playing over the press or if it was tiredness or what, but the press was far weaker than it has been in a while. That let Saudi Sportswashing Machine play through us rather than over us, and that will be tough for a new CM pairing.
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I don't think the pressing has been as intense since we came back from Azerbaijan - i.e. against Chelsea, West Brom and yesterday.
 
The press was very good against Monaco though. And in the first 15-20 mins yesterday it was good but then we lost discipline in the press. There was little cohesion to it.
 
Finney Is Back said:
He deserved to keep his place after his excellent performance against Monaco. I don't blame Pochettino for putting him in. It is right to reward a good performance with another start. However I think after that performance Carroll will find himself back on the bench (at best) He didn't really contribute in either an attacking or defensive sense yesterday.
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I don't think it was right to give Carol a start yesterday, after he'd given his all against Monaco. Incidentally, I don't think Carol was particularly bad. Most of the midfield and attack were average, he didn't stand out. But we desperately needed a win yesterday after all the draws, and playing Carol after such a big game for him midweek, was a mistake for me. This should have been a huge game for us. As such bring Carol on as a sub, and keep his momentum up.

I guess Pooch wanted to keep some consistency with Alli in the #10 role. And had Alli put away one of the balls over the top that set him free first half, it would have been the right decision. But for me, Alli next to Dier with Son playing was the best team. Son always seems to play better when starting the game, and we need him. He can contribute goals. I'd like to see Son getting a run, and getting his confidence up.
 
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glasgowspur said:
The press was very good against Monaco though. And in the first 15-20 mins yesterday it was good but then we lost discipline in the press. There was little cohesion to it.
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Yes, I'd agree with that. It just seems odd that it dropped off to such a significant extent yesterday and also against West Brom. I would've expected us to out-run and out-press both teams.
 
Amidst all this mostly justified criticism of Carroll are we not unfairly overlooking some of his better moments on Sunday? He did after all come up with a couple of sweet passes to instigate probably our best two moves of the match:

33.20 - Superb defence-splitting pass Carroll to put Rose in behind down L flank. Great cross Rose, exc. shot on target Lamela, great save goalie for corner Spurs.

51.10 - Nice pass Carroll to Kane to start brilliant forward move defence to attack. Great run Kane and passing interchange with Walker. Exc cut-back pass Walker from R edge of box to Kane. Good shot from range by Kane, saved by keeper far post.

There may even have been one or two others I missed but these two alone should help save him from eternal damnation surely?
 
Spur of the moment said:
Amidst all this mostly justified criticism of Carroll are we not unfairly overlooking some of his better moments on Sunday? He did after all come up with a couple of sweet passes to instigate probably our best two moves of the match:

33.20 - Superb defence-splitting pass Carroll to put Rose in behind down L flank. Great cross Rose, exc. shot on target Lamela, great save goalie for corner Spurs.

51.10 - Nice pass Carroll to Kane to start brilliant forward move defence to attack. Great run Kane and passing interchange with Walker. Exc cut-back pass Walker from R edge of box to Kane. Good shot from range by Kane, saved by keeper far post.

There may even have been one or two others I missed but these two alone should help save him from eternal damnation surely?
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Agreed - It wasn't his best performance by any stretch, he can definitely play better.

But as most player's performances in the league this season have been of a very good standard, and most of the players' performances were poor yesterday it is easier for people to call out Carroll who hasn't had a chance to demonstrate a good level of performance in the league this season yet, where as others have earnt the right to have the occasional below par performance.....
 
harr1984 said:
Agreed - It wasn't his best performance by any stretch, he can definitely play better.

But as most player's performances in the league this season have been of a very good standard, and most of the players' performances were poor yesterday it is easier for people to call out Carroll who hasn't had a chance to demonstrate a good level of performance in the league this season yet, where as others have earnt the right to have the occasional below par performance.....
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Very good points.

We really do need to keep reminding ourselves just how long the likes of Modric and Bale took to show their best. Was it not Carroll's very first start in the PL for us this season? Fact is it was really too much of an ask by Poch in the first place. Carroll clearly struggled with the extra zip and intensity of the PL compared to the EL. Also worth remembering he'd given his all Thursday night which must surely entitle him to some slack. Doubtless Poch was impressed by Carroll's performance that night but also he must have been nervous about playing Bentaleb after the way he'd showboated so crazily on his return from injury.
 
Tom Caroll is obviously a talented young man and his goal against Monaco was a thing of joy. I think that he needs a little more time around the squad before we rush to write him off. He may come good, he may not , it's difficult to call at the moment. I'd hate to see him leave to somewhere like Norwich, have a stand out season there and then end up at Man Utd or similar in a year or two. Patience dear friends please.
 
If he is happy to fight for his place, then i don't see the problem in him sticking around to see how he develops.
 
Yermiyahu said:
Tom Caroll is obviously a talented young man and his goal against Monaco was a thing of joy. I think that he needs a little more time around the squad before we rush to write him off. He may come good, he may not , it's difficult to call at the moment. I'd hate to see him leave to somewhere like Norwich, have a stand out season there and then end up at Man Utd or similar in a year or two. Patience dear friends please.
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The problem is his contract situation. It has to come to a head this window one way or another.

I can't see him agreeing to a 1 year deal, so we'll either be committing long term, or getting a modest fee before he walks in June.
 
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