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Toby Alderweireld

billyiddo said:
I keep flip flopping on this contract business - i think we can have a real go at winning the title next season and with Alderwiereld in the team the chances of that happen are greater than if he wasn't - i don't think it'll be our only chance in the coming years and i get the arguments against caving in to a players demands, especially if the numbers are correct but i just can't shake the feeling we can win the league next year with this squad
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Agree with this

Toby makes the squad stronger no doubt about it but he is also replaceable I believe with a player with the right motivations
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Agree with this

Toby makes the squad stronger no doubt about it but he is also replaceable I believe with a player with the right motivations
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Definitely and to add - i think Poch not playing him shows that he isn't being 'done over' by Levy being tight, as i think Poch would be playing him now (assuming he is fit) if he wasn't on board with the situation (as a message, he's a first team player and we need him) - i think Levy and Poch are in agreement on this and it's a joint message that these are our terms and we can survive with out you
 
billyiddo said:
Definitely and to add - i think Poch not playing him shows that he isn't being 'done over' by Levy being tight, as i think Poch would be playing him now (assuming he is fit) if he wasn't on board with the situation (as a message, he's a first team player and we need him) - i think Levy and Poch are in agreement on this and it's a joint message that these are our terms and we can survive with out you
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It has to be that message

The club are more joined up than any side in the league I’d argue other than maybe city

Any player not complying won’t last and it’s surely the best thing for the club
 
Gazza said:
Worked for Alex no matter who the player was. Even keane/Beckham at al eventually were gone for reasons off the pitch.
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Fergie always said the manager has to have control and he always insisted on that. Pep has it, Klopp probably has it and Poch has it. Conte and Wenger don’t seem to have control at their clubs and it shows.

I think the point above about this being a joint decision by Levy and Poch is a great point I hadn’t properly considered.
 
Gazza said:
Worked for Alex no matter who the player was. Even keane/Beckham at al eventually were gone for reasons off the pitch.
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I heard around the end of last year that Poch was looking to freshen up the squad in the summer and that would mean a few senior players leaving.

I posted on here at the time about the difficulty of a manager rebuilding a side that they have made and that few manage it. I think that is what he is looking to do. It is good news for us because it shows that he is planning for the future and that he wants to be here for that.
 
billyiddo said:
I keep flip flopping on this contract business - i think we can have a real go at winning the title next season and with Alderwiereld in the team the chances of that happen are greater than if he wasn't - i don't think it'll be our only chance in the coming years and i get the arguments against caving in to a players demands, especially if the numbers are correct but i just can't shake the feeling we can win the league next year with this squad
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Why would it be our only chance? We've been saying that every year for the past 3 years and, with the exception of this year's freak Emirates Marketing Project team, we're always in it. So I wouldn't look at it as desperately as that.
 
alekaras said:
Why would it be our only chance? We've been saying that every year for the past 3 years and, with the exception of this year's freak Emirates Marketing Project team, we're always in it. So I wouldn't look at it as desperately as that.
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He said it wouldn’t be our only chance
 
DeanoAustin said:
Fergie always said the manager has to have control and he always insisted on that. Pep has it, Klopp probably has it and Poch has it. Conte and Wenger don’t seem to have control at their clubs and it shows.

I think the point above about this being a joint decision by Levy and Poch is a great point I hadn’t properly considered.
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Fergie could get away with it cos he won bucket loads of trophies on a regular basis. Poch is one of the best young managers in Europe but he still hasn’t won anything. I think we’d be playing a dangerous game to potentially let 3 of best defenders from the last couple of seasons go in the space of two summers. Ok Rose I can kind of understand given how outspoken and opinionated he was at the start of the season. Granted no one really knows the ins and outs of what has gone on re Toby’s contract negotiations but what’s he meant to do? Contribute and be one of the catalysts in the best defence in the PL two years running and not at least ask for more money? I know if I had exceeded expectations massively in my role for two years in a row I’d at least ask the question.

Poch himself said today on soccer Saturday that you can’t succeed without top players. I like Sanchez but he’s young and will make mistakes and at this point is potential. Toby is already a world class CB! If Vertonghen were to get injured next season for a prolonged periods I wouldn’t be confident of winning trophies. You need experienced players, especially in the CL against street wise teams like Real Madrid and Juve. We missed Toby badly against Juve IMO
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It has to be that message

The club are more joined up than any side in the league I’d argue other than maybe city

Any player not complying won’t last and it’s surely the best thing for the club
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I agree. BUT Id argue we are moreso than City.

Everything is harmonious at City but that's against the backdrop of a bottomless pot of money.

Levy/Poch have to agree on many things that are greatly influenced by financial constraints. Those barriers just aren't there at City. There is no balancing act at City.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Fergie could get away with it cos he won bucket loads of trophies on a regular basis. Poch is one of the best young managers in Europe but he still hasn’t won anything. I think we’d be playing a dangerous game to potentially let 3 of best defenders from the last couple of seasons go in the space of two summers. Ok Rose I can kind of understand given how outspoken and opinionated he was at the start of the season. Granted no one really knows the ins and outs of what has gone on re Toby’s contract negotiations but what’s he meant to do? Contribute and be one of the catalysts in the best defence in the PL two years running and not at least ask for more money? I know if I had exceeded expectations massively in my role for two years in a row I’d at least ask the question.

Poch himself said today on soccer Saturday that you can’t succeed without top players. I like Sanchez but he’s young and will make mistakes and at this point is potential. Toby is already a world class CB! If Vertonghen were to get injured next season for a prolonged periods I wouldn’t be confident of winning trophies. You need experienced players, especially in the CL against street wise teams like Real Madrid and Juve. We missed Toby badly against Juve IMO
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I agree but we can’t afford Toby at 180k a week. If Levy sticks to the wages as percentage of turnover of 49%, he has an extra 49m to play with. He gives Toby three times his wages. That’s 5m gone.

What is Harry and his agent thinking? “fudge that I want to treble or quadruple my wages if Toby is. I could get it at Madrid or somewhere and Ozil and Sanchez or on similar money. I’m the best player at the club.” Now that’s an extra £15m to £20m on one player. We’ve now blown 50% of our extra wage budget on two players. Alli, Eriksen, Jan, Dembele and Lloris then want their cut. Let’s say an extra £100k a week each on average. That’s another £25m. That’s our entire budget.

Now Dier, Big Vic, Lamela, Winks, Sanchez, Rose and Davies are at Levys door and he has nothing to give them. The only one not looking for extra is Sissoko because at 90k, he knows he’s stealing a living.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Fergie could get away with it cos he won bucket loads of trophies on a regular basis. Poch is one of the best young managers in Europe but he still hasn’t won anything. I think we’d be playing a dangerous game to potentially let 3 of best defenders from the last couple of seasons go in the space of two summers. Ok Rose I can kind of understand given how outspoken and opinionated he was at the start of the season. Granted no one really knows the ins and outs of what has gone on re Toby’s contract negotiations but what’s he meant to do? Contribute and be one of the catalysts in the best defence in the PL two years running and not at least ask for more money? I know if I had exceeded expectations massively in my role for two years in a row I’d at least ask the question.

Poch himself said today on soccer Saturday that you can’t succeed without top players. I like Sanchez but he’s young and will make mistakes and at this point is potential. Toby is already a world class CB! If Vertonghen were to get injured next season for a prolonged periods I wouldn’t be confident of winning trophies. You need experienced players, especially in the CL against street wise teams like Real Madrid and Juve. We missed Toby badly against Juve IMO
Click to expand...

He wont get anywhere as a manager if he lets players dictate his approach on issues like these - no ones questioning Alderwierelds ability and if it was a simple question of deciding whether to keep him on or not then it would have been signed and sorted months ago...
 
Jurgen the German said:
Fergie could get away with it cos he won bucket loads of trophies on a regular basis. Poch is one of the best young managers in Europe but he still hasn’t won anything. I think we’d be playing a dangerous game to potentially let 3 of best defenders from the last couple of seasons go in the space of two summers. Ok Rose I can kind of understand given how outspoken and opinionated he was at the start of the season. Granted no one really knows the ins and outs of what has gone on re Toby’s contract negotiations but what’s he meant to do? Contribute and be one of the catalysts in the best defence in the PL two years running and not at least ask for more money? I know if I had exceeded expectations massively in my role for two years in a row I’d at least ask the question.

Poch himself said today on soccer Saturday that you can’t succeed without top players. I like Sanchez but he’s young and will make mistakes and at this point is potential. Toby is already a world class CB! If Vertonghen were to get injured next season for a prolonged periods I wouldn’t be confident of winning trophies. You need experienced players, especially in the CL against street wise teams like Real Madrid and Juve. We missed Toby badly against Juve IMO
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Mate...seriously, let's just see what Poch has planned. I know we disagree on the stance with Toby, but there are several alternatives playing out right now and I think it is wise to trust the man and see what he has up his sleeve. I think he has been very very honest; contracts are what they are, but Toby obviously is not showing up in training right now.
I will take issue with two things you've said...his catalytic effect on our impressive defensive record was largely achieved the first two seasons...this season he has been out since October!!!!!!!! Secondly, the club have responded to his questions with what looks to me (if accurate) like a very, very fair (possibly over-generous given his fitness issues) response...his rep clearly, clearly wants a payday of epically silly magnitude. Thus I suspect we will see him flirting with baguettes and catacombs sooner than later, and will in turn have a couple of very able people incoming...
 
billyiddo said:
He wont get anywhere as a manager if he lets players dictate his approach on issues like these - no ones questioning Alderwierelds ability and if it was a simple question of deciding whether to keep him on or not then it would have been signed and sorted months ago...
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But he doesn't have to let him dicatate his approach. If he's not playing him because of fitness concerns then that's understandable but he's started games recently for Belgium so I'm a bit skeptical. I fully accept that none of us know what's really going on here but Toby has still been posting losts of pro Spurs stuff on social media, I get that on its own isn't the be all and end all. If you were being cynical you could say he's doing it to stay in the good books with our fans.

Unless they've had a massive row or Toby is being a clam and not pulling his weight in training then I'm perplexed as to why he's not even being selected on the bench. Players go through difficult contract negotiations all the time but still get picked by their managers.
 
thfcsteff said:
Mate...seriously, let's just see what Poch has planned. I know we disagree on the stance with Toby, but there are several alternatives playing out right now and I think it is wise to trust the man and see what he has up his sleeve. I think he has been very very honest; contracts are what they are, but Toby obviously is not showing up in training right now.
I will take issue with two things you've said...his catalytic effect on our impressive defensive record was largely achieved the first two seasons...this season he has been out since October!!!!!!!! Secondly, the club have responded to his questions with what looks to me (if accurate) like a very, very fair (possibly over-generous given his fitness issues) response...his rep clearly, clearly wants a payday of epically silly magnitude. Thus I suspect we will see him flirting with baguettes and catacombs sooner than later, and will in turn have a couple of very able people incoming...
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I'm intrigued about the bolded part Steff. Players come and go all the time. I'm just worried that we're going to sell him to a PL rival, specifically United or Emirates Marketing Project. If you're watching the Manchester derby now it's plainly obvious to everyone that both clubs need top quality centre halves. It would be very naive if we let him go to one of those clubs. I can live with him going to PSG or somewhere else abroad.

With regards to the defensive record I was referring to last season and the one before that, not this season. We haven't been as good defensivley this season, we've already conceeded more than we did last season. I'm not saying that's all down to Toby but I think he's a big loss when he's not in the side.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Fergie could get away with it cos he won bucket loads of trophies on a regular basis. Poch is one of the best young managers in Europe but he still hasn’t won anything. I think we’d be playing a dangerous game to potentially let 3 of best defenders from the last couple of seasons go in the space of two summers. Ok Rose I can kind of understand given how outspoken and opinionated he was at the start of the season. Granted no one really knows the ins and outs of what has gone on re Toby’s contract negotiations but what’s he meant to do? Contribute and be one of the catalysts in the best defence in the PL two years running and not at least ask for more money? I know if I had exceeded expectations massively in my role for two years in a row I’d at least ask the question.

Poch himself said today on soccer Saturday that you can’t succeed without top players. I like Sanchez but he’s young and will make mistakes and at this point is potential. Toby is already a world class CB! If Vertonghen were to get injured next season for a prolonged periods I wouldn’t be confident of winning trophies. You need experienced players, especially in the CL against street wise teams like Real Madrid and Juve. We missed Toby badly against Juve IMO
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Did we really miss Toby against Juve? If Son buries his chances or Kane's header is a millimeter to the right we'd be saying "see, we don't really miss Toby." You can always construct a narrative if are looking for one.
 
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