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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

thfcsteff said:
There's an edge, a nastiness, in here tonight that I have seen building for a while. It seems to have sadly forced @Bedfordspurs into not being here these days, and there will be more no doubt. There are some recent posts which show no interest in discussion. There are others which are simply designed to denigrate others and their views. What a fudging shame...
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Whoa - has @Bedfordspurs stopped posting because of reactions? Doesn’t strike me that it would bother him. I just assumed he was on holiday or something. If not then that’s a huge shame.
I don’t read everything but on the whole things still seem courteous here overall. Of course there will be differences in opinions but it’s generally not abusive.
 
Bishop said:
We've conceded from winning positions and lost points for years now. Under an attacking coach like Ange and under defensive coaches like Conte, Jose and Frank. It doesn't really seem to make any difference our intentions.

No matter the coach no matter how well we might have played at an earlier stage of the match, if we haven't given ourselves a significant cushion we are very likely to concede and drop points. It's disingenuous to act like this is something new. It's why we bloody get called fudging sexy.
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Are Liverpool and city sexy too?
What about Chelsea who let Sunderland score two injured time to lose?
 
The idea that Frank went in at half-time and said "right lads, that was good, we're dominating, they've offered nothing. Now I want you drop back and invite pressure and hope we can hold out". Ridiculous.

There is another team on the pitch who can effect things and Sunderland did just that. They went from a low block, standing off us, keep it tight 1st half to we are a goal down and need to push forward 2nd half. Sadly (and mainly due to our usual tinkle poor passing) we were not good enough to counter that change and got forced back. This has happened for years under a few managers now. When teams take the game to us with intensity, we struggle to cope. It is not new.
 
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clownfoot said:
All teams do it. We just happen to get lumped with the adjective for it
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We are known for it but I think for obvious reasons. We have classically been a very front foot forward attacking team, often with some attacking quality but lacking defensively.

The attacking quality usually isn't above the top end of the league, more often a 5th or 6th in attacking totality (including things like depth) so we rarely actually pummel teams as our performances suggest we should, but that attacking impetus also tends to leave gaps at the back that the opposition are able to exploit. In other games no team dominated for an entire 90 minutes, games have momentum swings so if we haven't really taken control of a match completely when it does come to the opposition turn, given that we tend to be generally open at the back those teams are able to profit.

This happens more often with us (we hold the record of most points lost from winning positions) but again for the fairly obvious reasoning that throughout PL history we've rarely matched attacking quality with defensive quality and even then our attacking quality is rarely actually of a top, top team.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Whoa - has @Bedfordspurs stopped posting because of reactions? Doesn’t strike me that it would bother him. I just assumed he was on holiday or something. If not then that’s a huge shame.
I don’t read everything but on the whole things still seem courteous here overall. Of course there will be differences in opinions but it’s generally not abusive.
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Overall it’s fine. There are differences of opinion but that’s great and probably none of us would bother being here otherwise. But if digging up posts from more than 10 years ago to belittle someone else’s point of view is a sign of where this is going then people might start to switch off.
 
Mabspurs said:
You do realise that post referred to Poch - not Nuno - and it was in the first three months of his tenure?

Just shows form, my friend....
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Disingenuous and if you were serious you would know it, so lets address that post

- Was in first 3 months of Poch, and yes he did struggle at that time, and one of my points (his use of subs) is something as a manager he still gets rightly criticized for. I did not ask for him to be fired then and he corrected by November if I remember correctly, not being in January and not knowing who his 11 is.

My form as you put it is very simple
- Every player who puts on the shirt, every manager who gets hired, gets my backing (I've been called a happy clapper here many times)
- What I don't buy into is that bad managers somehow become good managers with time, and well run organizations are not the ones that don't make mistakes (that's nonsense), it's the ones that recognize the mistake and correct quickly.
- Our manager doesn't get the club, he constantly praises our efforts against mid/lower table dross, we are 12th, we have scored 3 goals in our last 5 PL games (none from open play, all corners) and 29 games in doesn't know his best 11, system or how to progress the ball.

But hey, tell me how time will make it better
 
Surfless said:
Poor technical players?

Name a better crosser at right back in the prem than Porro.
Name a better tackling 6 than Palhinha
Name a better ball playing centre half than Romero.
Name a faster more skillful left sided centre half than VDV.
Name a more talented 19 year old in midfield than Bergvall.

There's plenty of talent and plenty of technical skill in the squad, what there is is a lack of confidence and all our creative players are broken.

It's really not hard to see that until we have a more creative player firing on all cylinders we are going to be workman like and grind out results.
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I think the gaping hole in the squad is up front to be honest. Solanke will fill some of that if he ever comes back but we need to desperately bolster our strike force.
 
Raziel said:
.
- Our manager doesn't get the club, he constantly praises our efforts against mid/lower table dross, we are 12th, we have scored 3 goals in our last 5 PL games (none from open play, all corners) and 29 games in doesn't know his best 11, system or how to progress the ball.
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I find this stuff utterly ridiculous. He doesnt know our club, come off it.

I know there is a massive element of Heritage to this club, I love it and cling to it, but it doesnt translate to modern football.

I was sat here two years ago and there was equal nonsense from a fans forum of "we have our Tottenham back" that was equally nonsense to the other end.
 
Raziel said:
And his set piece coach replacement (with no managerial experience) having lost their two best players is managing to win a game by 4 goals, is in 7th (actually in contention for a CL place)

but hey, I'm sure you will tell me none of our players can get into their team and if we just had a 35 year old Jordan Henderson, Kelleher in goal and squad with Nelson, Pinnock, Collins, Schade, Janelt we would be better than them?

The guy is the next Potter/Nuno, and we can continue to have this conversation until the point between now and the end of the season where he will be fired.
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Bloody hell you really don’t like the bloke! Comparisons at this stage of the season are pointless? Have Brentford had to manage 2 games a week? They came to our gaff and we played them off the park a few weeks ago. I thought we were good today but lacked a cutting edge. Even in the “poor” second half we still created more chances than them. I remember them creating one quality chance from which they scored. That despite us having a patched up attack.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Sure thing….

“We’re one goal up and on top but let’s not risk conceding a goal. Drop deeper and deeper into my favoured low block as the game progresses and don’t try to pass through the midfield, instead hoof it long and hopefully we can somehow win the second ball despite not actually getting anyone up there to win them. Play for corners or throw-ins deep in their half and hopefully we can nick a goal from a set piece”
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Why am I not surprised....
 
Bishop said:
We've conceded from winning positions and lost points for years now. Under an attacking coach like Ange and under defensive coaches like Conte, Jose and Frank. It doesn't really seem to make any difference our intentions.

No matter the coach no matter how well we might have played at an earlier stage of the match, if we haven't given ourselves a significant cushion we are very likely to concede and drop points. It's disingenuous to act like this is something new. It's why we bloody get called fudging sexy.
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But why spoil the narrative with facts and logic?
 
Mcfee said:
Overall it’s fine. There are differences of opinion but that’s great and probably none of us would bother being here otherwise. But if digging up posts from more than 10 years ago to belittle someone else’s point of view is a sign of where this is going then people might start to switch off.
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Tbh mate some of the reactions to the draw today with a patched up attack are a bit extreme which then elicit stong responses back. If posters are laying into TF today then it’s going to be a long season.
 
Spoonman said:
The idea that Frank went in at half-time and said "right lads, that was good, we're dominating, they've offered nothing. Now I want you drop back and invite pressure and hope we can hold out". Ridiculous.

There is another team on the pitch who can effect things and Sunderland did just that. They went from a low block, standing off us, keep it tight 1st half to were a goal down and need to push forward 2nd half. Sadly (and mainly due to our usual tinkle poor passing) we were not good enough to counter that change and got forced back. This has happened for years under a few managers now. When teams take the game to us with intensity, we struggle to cope. It is not new.
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Would he have said what we're 1-0 up and we need to weather the storm that inevitably comes at the start of second halves from away teams? It quite common for an opposition to come flying out the blocks at you and then you take the ascendency again. I guess the problem with our guys is that it wasn't a 10-15 spell to weather. It became most of the second half, even though I still say we had the better chances and could have easily gone 2 or 3 up.
 
Raziel said:
Disingenuous and if you were serious you would know it, so lets address that post

- Was in first 3 months of Poch, and yes he did struggle at that time, and one of my points (his use of subs) is something as a manager he still gets rightly criticized for. I did not ask for him to be fired then and he corrected by November if I remember correctly, not being in January and not knowing who his 11 is.

My form as you put it is very simple
- Every player who puts on the shirt, every manager who gets hired, gets my backing (I've been called a happy clapper here many times)
- What I don't buy into is that bad managers somehow become good managers with time, and well run organizations are not the ones that don't make mistakes (that's nonsense), it's the ones that recognize the mistake and correct quickly.
- Our manager doesn't get the club, he constantly praises our efforts against mid/lower table dross, we are 12th, we have scored 3 goals in our last 5 PL games (none from open play, all corners) and 29 games in doesn't know his best 11, system or how to progress the ball.

But hey, tell me how time will make it better
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how will time make it better? Depends how long you want to consider.

Short term - players come back - Solanke, Maddison, Kulusevski, all adding to the depth and creativity of the squad. Performances improve.
Short term - the monkey on the backs of the players at home is starting to lift - a couple of better performances and results and this will hopefully improve further.
Mid term - the manager who supposedly doesn't get our club starts to generate a team that works as a fluid attacking unit, helped by the return of those players above, plus the further development of Kudus, Xavi, and the returning Mikey Moore. Vuskovic comes in to the side, and quickly turns into one of the best centre backs in the world. Bergvall and Gray fulfil their potential and the new board invests in quality players across the team in a calm and progressive manner, accepting that short termism will simply yield the same as the Levy years - success is more luck than judgement.
Long term - football finally regulates its teams in such a way that financial doping is outlawed, and as the best run financially in the league, Tottenham dominate the league for years to come, lead by captain Vuskovic.

Now - you will reply saying I can't know that any of that is going to happen - and you're right - but by the same token you can't simply say that time won't make things better - you haven't got a crystal ball.

Its not fun right now, but the manager is very very capable and needs to be afforded time to shape the squad to suit him - and that is more than one window and pre-season.
 
Finney Is Back said:
‘Hold on to what you’ve got’
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In fairness to Frank I think the plan was something like this:

First 30 minutes: blitz them. High line, high press. High tempo. Forward runners. Get ahead. Basically Klopp’s Liverpool,

When one goal ahead: see out the half. Mid block. Controlled possession.

Start of second half: mid-low block and counter at pace.

The reason I’d make a distinction between purely holding on to what we have and the counter at pace part is because there’s been plenty of games where we have overtly not countered when we had opportunities. We’ve deliberately slowed it down to maintain possession. And I didn’t get the sense we were doing that at the start of the second half. We’d retreated in territory, but still wanted to score. The players just didn’t execute.

I think when they really started to throw men forward and increase the tempo, something broke down there. I think VDV was getting lazy, and in general for a few minutes they were finding space in our shape in a way Palace and Brentford didn’t really. At that point we really needed to dig in but couldn’t. I’m not sure why it broke down - maybe I’ve been harsh on VDV but maybe he was reacting to a tiring Davies starting his first game? Maybe VDV was tired himself? Not sure,
 
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