Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

There's a narrative, that you're a defensive coach, a pragmatist who can tweak things but maybe not such a front foot kind of coach. Are you surprised by that, given your record with Brentford in your career?

I think it depends on whose narrative that is. The journalists? A few fans? I guess we have quite a few fans out there so I guess the ones who write on social media. I’m not on social media. I’m very aware we haven’t been free flowing, in some games, I think there’s definitely been some moments where we’ve been quite good. It’s something we work very hard on every single day. It’s fair to say every team I’ve managed, we’ve been able to score a lot of goals. Also a Brentford team with let’s say on paper lesser players, creating a lot of top goal scorers. I’m convinced we will do the same here. I think it’s fair to say we are also working very hard on it. The players are doing everything they can and it’s my job with the coaches to make sure they hit good relations, good structure and can be confident.



This question and answer from the presser just now is interesting and I’m not sure it’s the answer I’d want. He doesn’t actually answer the core question around being front foot. Because a team can score lots of goals and develop good attacking players while being a reactive side. I understand why he would want to remind people of some of the good from Brentford, but I’d want to hear some more in depth thoughts on his ideas for making the game.

 

[fernadez]

It’s why I called their possession game good, rather than excellent. But they are world class at set pieces.

Where as so far I’d say we’re very good at set pieces and have nothing else offensively.

At one point they were neither of those things. Maybe in 6 years and a billion in transfers we'll be comparable.

 

[glorygloryeze]

There's a narrative, that you're a defensive coach, a pragmatist who can tweak things but maybe not such a front foot kind of coach. Are you surprised by that, given your record with Brentford in your career?

I think it depends on whose narrative that is. The journalists? A few fans? I guess we have quite a few fans out there so I guess the ones who write on social media. I’m not on social media. I’m very aware we haven’t been free flowing, in some games, I think there’s definitely been some moments where we’ve been quite good. It’s something we work very hard on every single day. It’s fair to say every team I’ve managed, we’ve been able to score a lot of goals. Also a Brentford team with let’s say on paper lesser players, creating a lot of top goal scorers. I’m convinced we will do the same here. I think it’s fair to say we are also working very hard on it. The players are doing everything they can and it’s my job with the coaches to make sure they hit good relations, good structure and can be confident.



This question and answer from the presser just now is interesting and I’m not sure it’s the answer I’d want. He doesn’t actually answer the core question around being front foot. Because a team can score lots of goals and develop good attacking players while being a reactive side. I understand why he would want to remind people of some of the good from Brentford, but I’d want to hear some more in depth thoughts on his ideas for making the game.

A) Do you want him to live-stream his training sessions for us all (includiong rival coaches) to view via PPV as well?

B) Can you point out a coach that answered a similar question in the way that gave the kind of answer you were more satisfied with?

 

[billyiddo]

B) Can you point out a coach that answered a similar question in the way that gave the kind of answer you were more satisfied with?

"Trust the process"

 

[clownfoot]

There seems to be a trepidation to play forward through the middle, especially along the ground, from all but Romero. That has to be based on some instruction or drill to not take a risk there. It's not nice to see.

I mean, it's sort of give it to Kudus and let him try something

If the rumours of him missing the game tomorrow are true it’s going to be a long and frustrating night I imagine.

I know it’s not helpful to look back and compare to previous managers but it’s inevitable that’s what we as fans will do. Out of curiosity I looked up when we played Emirates Marketing Project away in Poch’s first season and got beat 4-1. It was the 8th league game that season. Strangely, that was the game I bought in. Despite the result I could see the plan, the philosophy, the intent. I’m yet to have the same buy in feeling with TF. I’m hoping it comes soon

 

[thfcsteff]

There's a narrative, that you're a defensive coach, a pragmatist who can tweak things but maybe not such a front foot kind of coach. Are you surprised by that, given your record with Brentford in your career?

I think it depends on whose narrative that is. The journalists? A few fans? I guess we have quite a few fans out there so I guess the ones who write on social media. I’m not on social media. I’m very aware we haven’t been free flowing, in some games, I think there’s definitely been some moments where we’ve been quite good. It’s something we work very hard on every single day. It’s fair to say every team I’ve managed, we’ve been able to score a lot of goals. Also a Brentford team with let’s say on paper lesser players, creating a lot of top goal scorers. I’m convinced we will do the same here. I think it’s fair to say we are also working very hard on it. The players are doing everything they can and it’s my job with the coaches to make sure they hit good relations, good structure and can be confident.



This question and answer from the presser just now is interesting and I’m not sure it’s the answer I’d want. He doesn’t actually answer the core question around being front foot. Because a team can score lots of goals and develop good attacking players while being a reactive side. I understand why he would want to remind people of some of the good from Brentford, but I’d want to hear some more in depth thoughts on his ideas for making the game.

Agreed.
I believe I am personally 'en route' to accepting that our attacking development will be simply be 'improving' the current style of play. My hope that there is going to be another way with the likes of Deki and Madders is not getting much support from him...still, I must exercise patience...

 

[thfcsteff]

A) Do you want him to live-stream his training sessions for us all (includiong rival coaches) to view via PPV as well?

B) Can you point out a coach that answered a similar question in the way that gave the kind of answer you were more satisfied with?

You won't like the answer to B...

 

[thfcsteff]

Maybe, just maybe, the rationale is that - what is available at the moment - he knows that the team is unable to play a progressive game and if he attempts it, we will be back to Ange levels of defensive frailty?

Even so, do you seriously believe that Frank is telling the players not to pass forward if they have an opportunity to do so? Seriously?

Of course it is the players! They simply are not good enough. Other than Madders and Kulu, which other midfielders have a decent track record of forward passing during the previous seasons?

That is most certainly my main hope. I absolutely want it to be the case.

 

[thfcsteff]

This forum is like bog snorkeling after a loss.

I enjoyed (??) the vision, but seriously, I am not sure the loss is the issue. It's the manner of it. Along with some of the draws we've eeked out when more is possible.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Thanks, so a lack of through balls is not Frank’s MO then, his Brentford side last season were pretty much in line with the rest of the league at it and “better” if that’s the right word, than Spurs.

Edit: and the 2 highest Spurs players from last season on through balls have been out all season.
Good to get some context. 4 all season is still crazy low though, not denying it shouldn’t be higher.

Good to see this stat over a decent period of time

FWIW here’s our through-ball leaders from the previous season, back when Angeball was in full flow and Sonny was leading the way…

9th) Sonny with 17
13th) Mbuemo with 15
17th) Maddison and Porro with 14
22nd) Kulusevski with 12
30th) Damsgaard with 10
35th) Jensen and Norgaard with 8
53rd) Sarr and Romero with 6
89th) Bentancur and Janelt with 4
118th) Bissouma and Davies with 3

 

[Bedfordspurs]

So
Is Frank having to play twice a week an issue
He has never done it before and it’s all new for him and his coaches
Is that why he can’t seem to get us passing a football?

 

[Bishop]

So
Is Frank having to play twice a week an issue
He has never done it before and it’s all new for him and his coaches
Is that why he can’t seem to get us passing a football?

Personally I don't really know what everyone expects? It feels to me like many on here and in the wider fan base think this squad is better than it really is.

Let's put Ange aside for the moment. Before him the squad largely played boring, slow possession football with little incision and purpose and created very few shots on goal. This happened under Conte, this happened under Mourinho and it happened under Nuno. Hell it was even happening under Poch in his final 14ish games. Memories are so short but this isn't a new problem it's been the default now for yearssss.

Now let's get back to Ange. He is the one wildcard because under him there was a change in approach, but one that went too far the other way and was altogether too gungho and frankly naive. Even then after those first 10 games I'd struggle to say we really played good football. I distinctly remember game upon game last season where we had oodles of useless slow possession, passing side to side slowly and giving the defenders eons to get back into position and set which then led to raft of aimless crosses to no one in particular. The only difference really was that the entire team was stationed so far up the pitch that at times we created chances via overwhelming the opposition but true penetrative attacking football? Nah definitely not last season and we all saw how vulnerable playing that way made us.

So I say all of that to say that it comes down to the same old thing. The players we have just aren't good enough to play the football we want them too. The pragmatic coaches we have employed all tried to protect their defences because they felt unable to either control the games or be decisive with their attacks. Ange was the opposite and pushed the team suicidally forward and we all saw how that faired n the league.

Can Frank be more attacking? Certainly, will that be successful I'll be honest I don't know if I believe that. I see too many holes. The lack of a decent LWF primarily, playing Spence at LB, no CM with passing ability as their key attribute etc. I could see us being more open, but no more successful. Tbh I think we'd just lose more games and concede more goals.

I'm not trying to absolve Frank of criticism, by all means criticise but let's be real, he's not exactly working with much.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Personally I don't really know what everyone expects? It feels to me like many on here and in the wider fan base think this squad is better than it really is.

Let's put Ange aside for the moment. Before him the squad largely played boring, slow possession football with little incision and purpose and created very few shots on goal. This happened under Conte, this happened under Mourinho and it happened under Nuno. Hell it was even happening under Poch in his final 14ish games. Memories are so short but this isn't a new problem it's been the default now for yearssss.

Now let's get back to Ange. He is the one wildcard because under him there was a change in approach, but one that went too far the other way and was altogether too gungho and frankly naive. Even then after those first 10 games I'd struggle to say we really played good football. I distinctly remember game upon game last season where we had oodles of useless slow possession, passing side to side slowly and giving the defenders eons to get back into position and set which then led to raft of aimless crosses to no one in particular. The only difference really was that the entire team was stationed so far up the pitch that at times we created chances via overwhelming the opposition but true penetrative attacking football? Nah definitely not last season and we all saw how vulnerable playing that way made us.

So I say all of that to say that it comes down to the same old thing. The players we have just aren't good enough to play the football we want them too. The pragmatic coaches we have employed all tried to protect their defences because they felt unable to either control the games or be decisive with their attacks. Ange was the opposite and pushed the team suicidally forward and we all saw how that faired n the league.

Can Frank be more attacking? Certainly, will that be successful I'll be honest I don't know if I believe that. I see too many holes. The lack of a decent LWF primarily, playing Spence at LB, no CM with passing ability as their key attribute etc. I could see us being more open, but no more successful. Tbh I think we'd just lose more games and concede more goals.

I'm not trusting to absolve Frank or criticism, by all means criticise but let's be real, he's not exactly working with much.

I think the squad is better than the performances
That’s all I judge on
I don’t look at it and think with these world class players we will do this do that because … we ain’t got them
I look at it and think with the players Frank has he can play football that goes forward better and also maintains a level of stability at the back
He doesn’t and didn’t need to stop us playing any attacking football to make the defence more solid
Just a didn’t Palhina would have had an impact IMO

 

[harr1984]

We like literally every other club need better players to improve. There is also no way that the teams we have fielded are incapable of being drilled in a way that gets them passing and moving the football, they aren't that good but they aren't that bad.

Also this excuse about this all being necessary to make us more solid, we aren't even that solid defensively - our goalkeeper is now constantly keeping us in games and in contention for MOTM most of the time lately. Why? Because we can't pass the ball, just move it sideways or punt it long and it keeps coming back to us inviting pressure on the defence.....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We like literally every other club need better players to improve. There is also no way that the teams we have fielded are incapable of being drilled in a way that gets them passing and moving the football, they aren't that good but they aren't that bad.

Also this excuse about this all being necessary to make us more solid, we aren't even that solid defensively - our goalkeeper is now constantly keeping us in games and in contention for MOTM most of the time lately. Why? Because we can't pass the ball, just move it sideways or punt it long and it keeps coming back to us inviting pressure on the defence.....

If rather see us playing attacking football and 10th with some progress and a plan
Rather than drab football with no obvious attacking plans and where we are
Just a plan would be great to see

 

[Mabspurs]

I think the squad is better than the performances
That’s all I judge on
I don’t look at it and think with these world class players we will do this do that because … we ain’t got them
I look at it and think with the players Frank has he can play football that goes forward better and also maintains a level of stability at the back
He doesn’t and didn’t need to stop us playing any attacking football to make the defence more solid
Just a didn’t Palhina would have had an impact IMO

For the sake of repeating myself hoarse.... this is practically the same squad that finished one position above relegation just 6 months ago with the same amount of injuries. Actually that squad always had a decent creative player at any one time... whether Madders, Kulu or Son.

When have we played forward football since that memorable day in Amsterdam? We just did Kamikaze football for the first handful of games under Ange until everyone sussed his naivety and started to kill us off with sucker punches on the break.

We have lost more than 40 games since the new stadium opened - that's more than 60% of home games. By all means keep your opinions. If Frank can keep us in the top 6 or 7, I will happy; no matter how it is done.

 

[DubSpur]

Personally I don't really know what everyone expects? It feels to me like many on here and in the wider fan base think this squad is better than it really is.

Let's put Ange aside for the moment. Before him the squad largely played boring, slow possession football with little incision and purpose and created very few shots on goal. This happened under Conte, this happened under Mourinho and it happened under Nuno. Hell it was even happening under Poch in his final 14ish games. Memories are so short but this isn't a new problem it's been the default now for yearssss.

Now let's get back to Ange. He is the one wildcard because under him there was a change in approach, but one that went too far the other way and was altogether too gungho and frankly naive. Even then after those first 10 games I'd struggle to say we really played good football. I distinctly remember game upon game last season where we had oodles of useless slow possession, passing side to side slowly and giving the defenders eons to get back into position and set which then led to raft of aimless crosses to no one in particular. The only difference really was that the entire team was stationed so far up the pitch that at times we created chances via overwhelming the opposition but true penetrative attacking football? Nah definitely not last season and we all saw how vulnerable playing that way made us.

So I say all of that to say that it comes down to the same old thing. The players we have just aren't good enough to play the football we want them too. The pragmatic coaches we have employed all tried to protect their defences because they felt unable to either control the games or be decisive with their attacks. Ange was the opposite and pushed the team suicidally forward and we all saw how that faired n the league.

Can Frank be more attacking? Certainly, will that be successful I'll be honest I don't know if I believe that. I see too many holes. The lack of a decent LWF primarily, playing Spence at LB, no CM with passing ability as their key attribute etc. I could see us being more open, but no more successful. Tbh I think we'd just lose more games and concede more goals.

I'm not trusting to absolve Frank or criticism, by all means criticise but let's be real, he's not exactly working with much.

I don't think anybody has unrealistic ambitions. From what I can see most are looking for a top 10 finish. With the squad we have that should be achievable. Nobody thinks the squad is full of world beaters but it's not a bottom half squad either.

I don't think anybody is expecting us to have a style to rival 2010-2012 Barca. But some semblence of progressive football is a minimum. I'd rather be unsuccessful watching decent football than being unsuccessful playing the utter crap that's being served up now.

Play Gray in midfield over Bentancur and let him get experience even if that means being a couple of spots lower in the league. Give him a bit more licence to play forward. He's got a decent pass on him and should be encouraged to use it. It'll benefit the team more long term than what we're doing now. If we're going to be mid-table it might as well be with an eye on building for the future.

 

[Bishop]

We like literally every other club need better players to improve. There is also no way that the teams we have fielded are incapable of being drilled in a way that gets them passing and moving the football, they aren't that good but they aren't that bad.

Also this excuse about this all being necessary to make us more solid, we aren't even that solid defensively - our goalkeeper is now constantly keeping us in games and in contention for MOTM most of the time lately. Why? Because we can't pass the ball, just move it sideways or punt it long and it keeps coming back to us inviting pressure on the defence.....

See I agree about us not even being particularly solid but I think thats a part of it. We can't even be really be solid when we play for it, so imagine if we are bit more open? Well we saw that last season under Ange.

I do think we can be more progressive undoubtedly but I have less faith in the capability of these players to actually do it well. See for me I think a large part of the passing malaise is well down to the players themselves. I mean just look at what the options are. Who exactly out of all of our options is the player who is supposed to put their foot on the ball and dictate? Who is the one to set a tempo? I don't see that as anyone's strength. Ange mitigated that by playing in much smaller spaces so players more often had a short passing option available but even then we still struggled to break teams down, mostly just played the ball sideways and backwards.

Edit: let's say we do try and play more progressive football. Who are they passing too? There's no one on the left. If Richy is playing he'll probably lying on the floor somewhere and Kudus is getting triple marked.

We need changes makeup of the team as much as we need changes in the structure.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

A) Do you want him to live-stream his training sessions for us all (includiong rival coaches) to view via PPV as well?

B) Can you point out a coach that answered a similar question in the way that gave the kind of answer you were more satisfied with?

I really just want him to answer the question that was asked.

There’s plenty of coaches that actually have more of a possession game that are willing and able to expand on their thoughts around the system in these pressers. I don’t think it’s some secret that Frank is hiding from the opposition that he’s about to unleash. He chose to answer it the way he did out of many other ways he could have taken it. And it’s not the biggest thing of course. But it’s a small insight into the way he thinks.

I think for Frank, it’s likely that ideas around possession systems are probably just not as important as they are to other coaches. To him, if we’re scoring, it’s probably fine. But the question wasn’t really about ‘are you going to score goals’ (we scored 3 last week, it’s clearly not about goals) but about how we play when we’re required to take the initiative.

It’s a little bit having his cake and eating it. Like one week saying that against Leeds they had more XG, but XG doesn’t sufficiently account for the openings we created. But then against Villa saying we had a better XG. It’s getting through the presser but it’s sort of skirting around the main issue. Either we deserve to win based on XG or we don’t. And either we’re going to be fine taking the initiative or we’re not. But answering the question with a different point isn’t helpful. Jose’s teams have scored lots of goals, but he’s still a reactive manager. Clearly we have struggled more when we need to be proactive. What is his answer to that? We don’t know because he hasn’t addressed it.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

See I agree about us not even being particularly solid but I think thats a part of it. We can't even be really be solid when we play for it, so imagine if we are bit more open? Well we saw that last season under Ange.

I do think we can be more progressive undoubtedly but I have less faith in the capability of these players to actually do it well. See for me I think a large part of the passing malaise is well down to the players themselves. I mean just look at what the options are. Who exactly out of all of our options is the player who is supposed to put their foot on the ball and dictate? Who is the one to set a tempo? I don't see that as anyone's strength. Ange mitigated that by playing in much smaller spaces so players more often had a short passing option available but even then we still struggled to break teams down, mostly just played the ball sideways and backwards.

Edit: let's say we do try and play more progressive football. Who are they passing too? There's no one on the left. If Richy is playing he'll probably lying on the floor somewhere and Kudus is getting triple marked.

We need changes makeup of the team as much as we need changes in the structure.

I think this is just an overly negative view of the capabilities of our squad, which is filled with internationals that have played the highest level of European competition.

Bournemouth play a more interesting game in possession. Brighton. Fulham. It’s just not credible to say our players are incapable of playing more than a highly risk averse system in possession which literally yielded 0.05xg in a derby.

A team of Vicario, Porro, Romero/Danso, VDV, Udogie/Spence, Paulina/Bentancur, Sarr/Bergval, Xavi, Kudus, Odobert/Tel, Richy/Kolo is more than capable of playing something better in possession.

Ange’s football wasn’t working offensively, so we looked worse defensively too. When it clicks and we had a decent fit team to put out, we would swarm the opposition and they wouldn’t get a foothold. I don’t think our team is so bad that we literally have no other option but to defend…that’s how bad it was against Chelsea. We looked like a team from a lower league that was lucky to get a big home draw in the cup. But it’s all linked. Reactive football when it works will pick an opposition off and make them look really naive. When it doesn’t work, it just looks impotent. And the concern folks had before Frank joined was whether he was well suited to managing the large number of games where we would be expected to take the initiative.